Calvary Cemetery Lookup

[carpenter49]

No problem Michael.  There's a lot of information that is helpful. 

1.  I am going to ask my more knowledgeable friend about the Liquidation Bureau.  Just from the sound of it, it must have changed it's name over time.  If so, my friend, Jim, might also know what this agency is and what it is called now.

2.  I know there has to be a record, but encountered this even in Washington, D.C. cemeteries when researching.  They told me the "might have a death cert." and, of course, they did.  Why they are not required to keep them, I will have to try and research this and ask my friend, Jim.

3.  It's cooling off, so I will still try and give the office at Calvary a try -- with the information you have provided about burial permits and transit permits because this I did not know.  Jim might also know more about this, so I will check with him. 

Don't forget to give me a nudge after awhile (below) -- Jim sometimes has too many and forgets but sometimes he gets right on it.  He does this alot -- some kind of historian.   But, since I'm not asking him to go out again -- I will do the Calvary visit -- he might be able to provide some clues on this Liquidation Bureau and on how long a cemetery keeps a death cert.  It really is unbelievable to have a burial and no certificate -- no matter how much time has passed.  Besides, Calvary is on microfilm so it's not like there's some tremendous file to keep on O'Neil family plot(s).

I take these on one at a time so it's not a bother; right now you are the only one on my open items for the UK. 

One final thought; it occurs to me that even with Jim going down her name could have been entirely wrong.  She could have been listed as Oneil or Oneill.   It's quite a difference in an on line search to use the apostrophe or not.   Though Jim could catch that, I'm not sure that the last name is misrecorded causing her record to be misfiled or "missing." 

bcarpenter@nyc.rr.com    (give me 2 weeks on this).   

If you don't hear, be sure and contact me.  Seriously.  Like Jim, I tend to get off on tangents, even when I have only one thing outstanding -- other than my own research so I won't be bothered by a reminder. 

Regards,

barbara

[carpenter49]

Also wondering if the paperwork wound up as Neil or Neill.  That would be significant.

And I saw something I missed in your previous posts.  Yes, Ravenswood, Long Island is NYC.  Queens County (1 of the 5 boroughs of NYC) always listed themselves by neighborhood, and still does.   Ravenswood was a part of Long Island City and encompassed Long Island City (the neighborhood), Ravenswood, Astoria, Hell's Gate, Sunnyside, Hallet's Cove, Newtown and any number of ever evolving names. 

So, we are still looking in NYC because it's just a neighborhood name for Queens County, with Long Island City being the postal name, and was at least in use in 1870, if not before, and those neighborhoods are incorporated into Long Island City, including Ravenwood being one of them.   By the way, though Calvary is near me (about 8 blocks) that "neighborhood" concept called Ravenswood is fairly close to here.  It's now absorbed by Astoria (Long Island City), though some buildings are still named after the old Ravenswood name. 

[carpenter49]

First update:

Cemeteries are not required to keep the death certificate --  have not found out where that goes.  What they must have is a burial permit that records that they can (and do) bury the person on that date and they must see the deed.  That might not give death certificate # but this is something I need to take up with Calvary.  This, according to Jim, my friend.

The Liquidation Beaureau handles businesses, mostly insurance companies, that have gone out of business and there are still people with insurance that has been paid for and must be honored.  These are insurance companies that wind up in receivership.  I have to read your post again, but I am at a loss to explain why the geneaolgy site gives the Liquidation Bureau one set of responsibilities when it clearly states that they handle defunct insurance companies on the site.  Another thing to ponder.

[Michael ONeil]

Hi Barb,

Wow so much info - hope I don't miss anything with my yet again long reply.

I'll start with saying that I honestly think Calvary will not hold a death certificate. In my written dealings with them they've always stated that even when my correspondence was not asking about them so I don't reckon it's even worth asking the question.

O'Neil or not O'Neil - haha! - you can't believe how many name variants I've tried - there's probably a mathematical proof that proves I haven't missed any!!! That's why Steve Morse's site for searching the death indexes is an absolute gem - it allows you to search chronologically. This meant I didn't need a first name or surname - I could just search every death during a set period which I've done for ALL deaths in January (in case it was misfiled as Jan instead of Jun), all deaths in June and all deaths in July (same as Jan). All I had to do was look at anyone who died aged 81 and see if the name could possibly have been misfiled somehow from Mary Ann O'Neill. There were obviously quite a few Mary's but nothing close as far as surname.

However just for accuracy's sake she was baptised 23 May 1835 (Clonakilty, Ireland) and her name was written as Neil. All her siblings bar one had this spelling with the youngest being written as Neill - I suspect this was because the father had emigrated to NYC in the July of 1850 and the youngest son was baptised in the December meaning the father was not present at the baptism so maybe he couldn't ensure the spelling? I do know that the shipping manifests are all spelt in different ways and it's the same for documents I have prior to 1860-ish as well as later directories, census, etc - I suppose it was down to who was writing it at the time. They had adopted the O' prefix by 1857 - why I don't know for sure. Some people have suggested that there was a gaelicisation amongst the immigrants in the USA but that doesn't explain why family members who stayed in Ireland had also adopted the pre-fix by the mid 1850s and who now use O'Neill - 2 Ls! Anyhow I digress - O'Neil with one L we are but variants abound.

Mary Ann though seemed always to use the middle name or initial.

I included the Ravenswood reference only as that is the only mention of another place in Mary's files I have away from the immediate family addresses of Madison Street and East 12th Street - as I said it appears she had a friend there but that was dated 1886 so sometime earlier. As you say though this would be covered by Queens County which is one of the 5 boroughs.

I too had found the Liquidation Bureau - it just seemed wrong. Somehow I was expecting some sort of official department that just dealt with extant funeral homes or undertakers records - I never thought about insurance companies and I wouldn't know where to start. I did have some luck in Akron Ohio a while back when researching one of Mary's brothers who died in 1918. Amazingly the undertakers were still in business so emailed them just out of curiosity to see what they might have given that I had the death and cemetery details and quite kindly they emailed me a pdf of what they had. It was a detailed receipt of embalming fluid costs, coffin size and materials, coffin suit, etc - a bit morbid in a way but I did ask didn't I?

I wondered if you and your friend Jim had any thoughts about another location outside of NYC, NY State or NJ State. I was thinking more about the logistics and how that would affect how far to check. I've done Ohio which is where two of her brothers were living in case she was on a visit but no joy there.

Lastly and I'm sure it won't have any bearing on things but when I first contacted Calvary back in 2002 and they supplied me with the interment list there was a line Care $943.00. I contacted them again (thinking I owed them this amount for the list!) and they said this was past due grave care from 1962 with present rate of $108 per annum (or a perpetual care fee upon application). So it appears that grave care had been paid for all this time. I suspect this ceased upon the death of Mary Ann's sister-in-law Patience in Akron who died 1960 aged 93 - there's no other explanation my side for who paid this money.

Having all the info, documents, etc that I have, it's just annoying that I can't close this one. My gut feeling is that there's been a mix-up in NYC - either it was misfiled, wrong name, lost or simply never recorded correctly at the time. As far as I know it's the attending physician that issues a death certificate to the family, keeps a copy and another is sent to the authorities in this case NYMCA.

So that's it for now Barb - there's no rush for this - I don't think Mary Ann's going anywhere!