Elizabeth Johnson/Johnston maiden name Orr

[chappers]

Hello there

My ancestor was Elizabeth Orr born in Co Armagh in 1828.  When I applied for her marriage certificate of 1849, it said she was married to Robert Johnson but at the signature part of the certificate, his name is written as Robert Johnston.  The marriage took place in Co Armagh and I think they may have then gone to Liverpool - I have seen various censuses showing a Robert and Elizabeth Johnson both born Ireland and of the relevant ages and birth years but am not sure if they are the right couple. There were four children at least. 

I am trying to find out if my ancestor Elizabeth Orr is definitely the one who went to Liverpool as Elizabeth Johnson and not Johnston.  One of the children of this couple is William Craig Johnson born 5th Aug 1858.  I thought I would apply for this birth certificate in the hope it will give the maiden name of his mother as being Orr.

Does anyone know if birth certificates of the 1850s have the mother's maiden name on them or is that a rule that came in later?  My ancestor may have died in Jan 1901 and I'm wondering if her death certificate would have the maiden name on it.  I cannot think of any other way of discovering if Elizabeth Johnson's maiden name was Orr.

Any suggestions would be very gratefully received.

Thank you
Carol

[suzard]

 The birth certificate would have the mother's maiden name on it at that time
Death certificate would not give maiden names

It looks like Robert and Elizabeth were in Lancs by 1851
1851
Luke's Place Wavertree lancs
Robert Johnson Head M 28 Shoemaker Ireland
Elizabeth wife 27 Ireland
Edward son 2 Liverpool Lancs
2192 1093 39

there are several marriages in Lacs with Robert Johnson & an Elizabeth on the same page - so maybe the only way to solve it is by purchasing the birth certificate of William Craig Johnson

Suz

[chappers]

Hello Suz

Many thanks for your reply.  I know Elizabeth Orr and Robert Johnson or Johnston married in Ireland and they had a son Edward but I can't find a birth record for Edward in any Irish or UK records even though it says he was born in Liverpool.  I am happy to purchase the birth record for the child named William born 1858 but just wonder if it would actually have the mother's maiden name on it.  The baptism record online just says Elizabeth.  I've been told that maiden names didn't have to appear on birth certificates until 1911 but don't know if that's correct.

Kind regards, Carol

[Radcliff]

Just have a look at this baptism and let me know what you think,

St Anthony
Edward Johnson
son of Robert and Elizabeth
born 16th November 1848
baptism,3rd of December
god mother Cath Morton
God father,James Dowling
possibly Richmond Street

[Radcliff]

St Luke Liverpool
20th April 1889
Edward Johnson,aged 40,bachelor,labourer
of 2 Melbourne Place,Roscoe Lane
father Robert Johnson,labourer,
Alice Ann Tyson,aged 31,spinster
of 2 Melbourne Place,
father Miles Pritt Tyson,? shoemaker
witness to marriage
William Craig Johnson
Catherine Kennedy

[Radcliff]

St Peter Liverpool
William Craig Johnson
abode Everton
son of Robert and Elizabeth
born 5th August 1858
October 11th 1858
father a shoemaker

[chappers]

Hello Radcliff

Thank you for your replies to my query.  The Edward Johnson baptism at St Anthony's appears to be a Roman Catholic one which I don't think would be the one I am looking for and he may have even been born in Ireland before his parents went to Liverpool.  Your two other findings are very interesting and I have now applied for the birth certificate of William Craig Johnson which I hope will show the mother's maiden name as Orr

Thanks again, Carol

[suzard]

I hope it is the correct mother- please come back and let us know

Suz

[chappers]

Hello Suz

You replied to a topic I had written recently concerning my ancestor named Elizabeth Orr who married a Robert Johnson or Johnston - their marriage certificate gives both of these names.  I applied for the birth certificate of a William Craig Johnson born 1858 son of a Robert and Elizabeth Johnson who both stated they were from Ireland in the censuses, hoping it would give the maiden name of the mother as Orr.  The certificate arrived this morning and unfortunately the mother's name is not the one I am looking for so it's back to square one!  You were correct in saying the maiden name would be on a certificate from 1858 - I wasn't sure that would be the case.

Regards
Carol