Author Topic: Pre-1841 censuses: Brightlingsea 1831, Elmstead 1811  (Read 7574 times)

Offline helvissa

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Re: Pre-1841 censuses: Brightlingsea 1831, Elmstead 1811
« Reply #18 on: Friday 17 January 14 12:07 GMT (UK) »
Martin: That's amazing, I had no idea coastguards were on there, but I suppose it makes sense he started off with a mariner job - my knowledge of coastguards isn't vast (I went to the station in Clacton when I was in sailing cadets) so did they have to go to sea to rescue people, like now when the coastguard sends out helicopters? I've got an FindMyPast account, and I've just this second looked him up - brilliant! Thank you. :)

fastfusion: alas, so few of the pre-1841 censuses survive. Essex has an unnaturally high number of them, though, which is handy for us.... ;)

Offline crimea1854

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Re: Pre-1841 censuses: Brightlingsea 1831, Elmstead 1811
« Reply #19 on: Friday 17 January 14 13:24 GMT (UK) »
Seamen's Tickets were introduced to provide information on all seamen so that in times of national crisis the Government would better know how many men were available to man the fleet, hence the system being very unpopular. The Tickets were introduced when men could move freely between the Royal and Merchant Navies, signing on only for the duration of a ship's commission, so these particular records can be overlooked by those with ancestors in the Royal Navy.

On your question about the roll of the Coastguards. As an organisation it did not come into existence until 1822, with it's primary function being the suppression of smuggling under the control of Customs and Excise. It was only after the Crimean War when some 2600 Coastguards were drafted into the navy to man the Baltic Fleet, that it transferred to the Admiralty, but it was only later that their lifesaving roll, that we know today. developed.

Martin

Offline Duodecem

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Re: Pre-1841 censuses: Brightlingsea 1831, Elmstead 1811
« Reply #20 on: Saturday 18 January 14 09:16 GMT (UK) »
Thank you for your help and interest, Helvissa. I don't have any evidence to link James Harvey with anywhere other than Brightlingsea, (although his wife came from Colchester, they married in Brightlingsea. She was a monthly nurse so perhaps had a patient there.)
 James could certainly have come from another area but I don't know where. Interestingly their last daughter was born in Shoreham by Sea in Sussex, though baptised in Brightlingsea. I wondered whether the family was accompanying James on a fishing trip, but it's just possible he came from Sussex and they were visiting relatives?
If I pay for a day's subscription to Seax, what should I look for? I presume that James's birth and burial is not recorded? It would be interesting to find Elizabeth Hills's baptism in Colchester. Is the site easy to search?
I thought ,when I looked at the 1831 census, that they were the only Harveys in the town, but, of course, there may have been other men named Harvey, at sea.
Interestingly, I have relatives on my mother's side of the family,( who were from Yarmouth,) who lived in Dovercourt. David Dale was master of a lightship and lived at 16 Lee Road in 1891.(They had several children so some descendants may still be in the area) Other members of  my mother's family also lived in Dovercourt for a time- but there were no links to the Harveys, from my father's side.
Cooper- Berks, Herts, Wrexham,Birmingham
Garrett- London, Berks
Morton-Berkshire
Harvey- Essex
Hambling, Royal,Dale,Jackson, Tann, Boatwright Edridge/Etheridge/Uttridge -all Norfolk
Osborne-Norfolk and Northumberland/Durham

Offline Duodecem

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Re: Pre-1841 censuses: Brightlingsea 1831, Elmstead 1811
« Reply #21 on: Saturday 18 January 14 10:44 GMT (UK) »
Just an update-the Shoreham History portal has a list of parish baptisms from the 16th to the 19th centuries-no one with the surname Harvey at all. There were some Harvie, Harvy baptisms in the 16th and early 17th century-none of any variation, later than 1609. Obviously spelling of surnames varies through time, but it seems that Shoreham was not where James originated. Back to Brightlingsea!
Cooper- Berks, Herts, Wrexham,Birmingham
Garrett- London, Berks
Morton-Berkshire
Harvey- Essex
Hambling, Royal,Dale,Jackson, Tann, Boatwright Edridge/Etheridge/Uttridge -all Norfolk
Osborne-Norfolk and Northumberland/Durham


Offline helvissa

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Re: Pre-1841 censuses: Brightlingsea 1831, Elmstead 1811
« Reply #22 on: Saturday 18 January 14 12:04 GMT (UK) »
Martin: ah that's great - makes sense why they're sometimes referred to as "prevention officers" too. i.e. preventing smuggling. There was always a legend in Wivenhoe, where I grew up, that there was a smugglers' tunnel which came up somewhere near the church! In fact, I did find a newspaper report where one of my fisherman relatives was smuggling lots of booze. I can only apologise. I'll check out the other records you mentioned too - thank you!


Offline helvissa

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Re: Pre-1841 censuses: Brightlingsea 1831, Elmstead 1811
« Reply #23 on: Saturday 18 January 14 12:34 GMT (UK) »
janfurness:
Harvey in Brightlingsea
I've looked through the Brightlingsea All Saints baptisms from 1769 to 1812 and written down every Harvey that appears:

7th May 1769 Jonathan of Nathaniel & Mary Harvey
19th April 1778 William son of William Harvey
7th March 1802 William son of William & Martha Harvey (one assumes the father here is about 24 and was the William baptised in 1778)
22nd September 1811 Mary daughter of James & Elizabeth Harvey <--- your family

I cannot see a baptism there for James, but with there being only that one baptism for a child of William Harvey, it's possible that James is his son and was baptised in another parish.

There are a lot of Harveys on the Webrarian site: http://www.webrarian.co.uk/ But I can't see your James. However, it does include a James Harvey born about 1692 and his son, also James, born about 1712, and both were from Brightlingsea. So again, we have the name associated with Brightlingsea. I really think that you'll find James in one of the other parishes in the Tendring area, but the question is, of course, which one?! The only way to find it will be to go through each parish register one by one. You can leave out the ones which appear on FreeREG and Family Search (if you look at Dusty Docs, you can see the coverage of free transcriptions). The registers on Essex Ancestors (on Seax) aren't indexed, so you have to find the one which covers the years you need and then go through each image - it can be difficult if you're not used to it, not only because of the handwriting but also because of the rather eccentric approach some vicars took to the arrangement of their registers! You would probably need more than a day to do it, and this comes with a health warning - parish registers are VERY addictive!

The transcription CD I have for Brightlingsea covers 1813-1851, and James isn't on there - his marriage was in 1810 so comes 3 years before it starts, and his rough date of birth (I suppose we might assume it was sometime around his wife's) falls well before it too (hence me going through the scans of the original register just now on Essex Ancestors). And it covers the period when we assume he died, but there's no burial for him. The only Harvey burials in Brightlingsea on the CD are for three of James & Elizabeth's children (Elizabeth Ann in 1815, James jnr in 1820 and Jane Caroline in 1825 (I think she's the one baptised as Jemima Caroline in 1823). The CD includes the marriages of Betsy Ann Harvey (born about 1817, married Wm Marrington Goff in 1842), and there's one for Mary Harvey, who married Robert Wade in 1836 - this could be the Mary, daughter of James & Elizabeth, baptised in 1811. The only other Harvey marriage in Brightlingsea is William Harvey and Rebecca Ward.

Note that on the CD there are transcriptions for Thorrington and Frating too - there are some Harveys there too, and I think one of the was called James, so be careful you don't pick the wrong James!

Hills in Colchester
I've checked the transciption CDs covering 1783-1812 and can't see a baptism for Elizabeth Hills in Colchester (also checked the extra-mural parishes - nothing there either). There's a Francis Hill, son of John & Catherine, born in 1789 and baptised at St Mary's at the Walls, which could be her brother if she was baptised outside Colchester. There is an Elizabeth Halls, daughter of James & Rachel, born in 1788 and baptised at St. Nicholas' (but there are a lot of children of James & Rachel Halls, so I suppose it's unlikely that it's a mistake between Hills and Halls, but I mention it as a possibility). (and just so you know - no James Harvey baptisms in Colchester either).

I have also checked the non-conformist records and can't see her there either.

There are, however, several people called Hills in "Colchester People" (the John Bensusan-Butt archive). I will need to have a read through and see if it mentions Elizabeth. They seem to be mainly prosperous baymakers.

Offline Duodecem

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Re: Pre-1841 censuses: Brightlingsea 1831, Elmstead 1811
« Reply #24 on: Saturday 25 January 14 16:38 GMT (UK) »
Thank you so much for your detailed and very helpful reply helvissa. I'm sorry not to have responded sooner-family illness and hospital visiting.
Your reply does solve what became of Elizabeth Anne-I've never found any records for her and I'd presumed she died before Betsey Anne was born as their names were so similar, but this confirms it.
Betsey is on the Webrarian site you mentioned-but there are no details of her parents or siblings.
There was a second son called James, in 1841 he was a fisherman living with his sister Mary and husband Robert Wade,(you were right there too.)
Only having 2 sons-both James doesn't give a clue as to possible fathers' names- a William would have been helpful!.
As for mothers-well Anne and Mary?-not much help there.
My ancestor was their youngest child-Emma Emilia- but they'd probably exhausted mothers' names by then and were free to be inventive!
Elizabeth Hills was born about 1787 and from Colchester according to the censuses. She lived in St Mary at the Walls after James's death.
It looks as though it will remain a mystery for a while longer- but thanks once again for your help.

Cooper- Berks, Herts, Wrexham,Birmingham
Garrett- London, Berks
Morton-Berkshire
Harvey- Essex
Hambling, Royal,Dale,Jackson, Tann, Boatwright Edridge/Etheridge/Uttridge -all Norfolk
Osborne-Norfolk and Northumberland/Durham

Offline Duodecem

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Re: Pre-1841 censuses: Brightlingsea 1831, Elmstead 1811
« Reply #25 on: Sunday 26 January 14 20:42 GMT (UK) »
I've been doing a bit more searching for Elizabeth Hills in Colchester-this time on Familysearch. I didn't find her but I did find this family-
https://familysearch.org/search/record/results#count=20&query=%2Bsurname%3AHills~%20%2Brecord_country%3AEngland%20%2Brecord_subcountry%3A%22England%2CEssex%22%20%2Bbirth_place%3AColchester%20%2Bbirth_year%3A1780-1800~
The parents are James and Mary Hill and they baptised their children-James, Ann, John, Robert and Mary in the Quaker church in Colchester between 1786 and 1793.
Obviously I have no proper evidence but this could be Elizabeth's family. Her firstborn child was Mary  and the name Ann occurs several times. Ann Hill could even be Ann Elizabeth-known as Elizabeth. ( Elizabeth's daughter was Anne Flora, always known as Flora.) Mary Hills was a witness at her wedding.
What do you think-are they a likely family?
Cooper- Berks, Herts, Wrexham,Birmingham
Garrett- London, Berks
Morton-Berkshire
Harvey- Essex
Hambling, Royal,Dale,Jackson, Tann, Boatwright Edridge/Etheridge/Uttridge -all Norfolk
Osborne-Norfolk and Northumberland/Durham

Offline helvissa

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Re: Pre-1841 censuses: Brightlingsea 1831, Elmstead 1811
« Reply #26 on: Sunday 26 January 14 21:28 GMT (UK) »
It's always a possible. The Francis Hills baptism is on the transcription CD, baptised at St Mary's at the Walls, in the Church of England church, and it's very suggestive seeing as that the parish Elizabeth is in in 1851.

Extra evidence - are there any wills for that family?

There is a James Hills, born in St. Martin's, Colchester in about 1784 who appears in the Kilmainham records (found the reference on Discovery, actual record on FindMyPast). Went into the 34th Regt of Foot in Chelmsford in 1805. Enlisted again in the 3rd Veteran Regt of Foot (or something) in his 30s. Bearing in mind the supposed year of birth, could be Elizabeth's brother. But where is his baptism?!