Author Topic: how to trace people from Ireland to Australia, marriage banns  (Read 8431 times)

Offline majm

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Re: how to trace people from Ireland to Australia, marriage banns
« Reply #27 on: Friday 15 February 13 06:53 GMT (UK) »
Agree Debra, my thoughts too re the dc

Some rushed and jumbled thoughts ….

Re the Francis MORRIS who arrived in 1839 on the Barossa. The chap that Debra mentions….  His ToL dates from 1847, Maitland ….  ToL47/110.  … 
I have read the Old Bailey account….   Francis MORRIS was a policeman !!!!!!!.

Some extracts :

“SAMSON DARKIN CAMPBELL . I am an Inspector of police. I received information respecting the stealing of this watch—the prisoner, Francis Morris, came to the station-house of his own accord—he was dressed as a policeman in his uniform ….   —I then sent for the prisoner Ellen Morris into the charge-room, and asked her what her husband was—she said, "a painter and glazier"—I said, "Is he not in the police?"—she then burst into tears, and said, "He is—I know nothing of the watch—I never saw it till this morning"—I found the key of the watch at the prisoner Francis Morris's lodgings ”

And
“WILLIAM YEOMAN (police-constable K 57.) I was on duty on the morning of the 25th of October, in the Mile-end-road—I saw the prisoner Francis Morris on duty that morning—he was on the beat where this felony was said to have been committed—he was alone—he was on duty from nine o'clock at night till six o'clock in the morning—I saw him several times—I saw him between one and two o'clock that morning.”

“FRANCIS MORRIS— GUILTY . Aged 22.
ELLEN MORRIS— NOT GUILTY .
Transported for Ten Years”
So the Francis Morris transported to NSW on the Barossa arriving in 1839 was aged 22 when sent to trial in December 1838, and was a married man, with 1 child.

Have you tried to find details of that (English) marriage (to Ellen) or birth of the female child?  Civil registrations commenced in 1837 in England


Re his status on that 1848 NSW marriage record.   He stated he was a bachelor.   Are you aware that the sentence of transportation beyond the seas for seven or more years effectively ended the marriage?  So that it is likely that he may well have explained that earlier marriage to the Rev McGarvie .   Please remember that the information on the mc is recorded by the clergy, and in 1848 the options available to the clergy were either Bachelor/Spinster OR Widow/Widower.   As the marriage was by BANNS, the only option available in 1848 for the clergyman to record was BACHELOR.   A Widow/widower needed a licence, which the clergyman would be involved in organising.   

Some information on the following link re ending marriages before Civil Divorce came to the various colonies in Australia
http://www.aifs.gov.au/institute/seminars/finlay.html

Cheers,  JM
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Offline Dundee

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Re: how to trace people from Ireland to Australia, marriage banns
« Reply #28 on: Friday 15 February 13 06:56 GMT (UK) »
livpete, you said that Bridget's death cert named her father as Michael (crossed out), then Patrick added instead.  Can you confirm that this is her death reg. with a mistake in the indexing or was she registered with a different surname?

785/1893
MORRIS, BRIDGET
Parents WILLIAM & BRIDGET
SYDNEY

Debra  :)   

Offline FamilyDet

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Re: how to trace people from Ireland to Australia, marriage banns
« Reply #29 on: Friday 15 February 13 07:09 GMT (UK) »
Thank you everyone for so much information.  Just going through it all.  I am a little confused now.  Is there such a ship as the "Morentia"?  I have done some searches and never been able to find it.  The certificate I have with that information was a transcribed death certificate.  He died in the Liverpool Asylum in 1877.  The informant was the clerk.  There is not a lot of information on it.  No mention of family at all.  His occupation is put as a Painter, age 58, place of birth Ireland, Time in Aust Colonies states per "Morentia" 1839.

Offline FamilyDet

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Re: how to trace people from Ireland to Australia, marriage banns
« Reply #30 on: Friday 15 February 13 07:15 GMT (UK) »
Hi Debra,

It states on the certificate that it was altered from
William McDonald to Patrick McDonald and that is the correct certificate.  Have no idea why I wrote Michael  :-\

Liv





Offline majm

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Re: how to trace people from Ireland to Australia, marriage banns
« Reply #31 on: Friday 15 February 13 09:16 GMT (UK) »
He died in the Liverpool Asylum in 1877.  The informant was the clerk. 

http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/guides-and-finding-aids/archives-in-brief/archives-in-brief-85

Don't build your hopes up, but cross all fingers, toes, and everything, as on the rare occasion, there's sometimes clues in the hospital records.   At least you should be able to read the ship's name on those hospital records.     

Cheers,  JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
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Offline ~MERLIN~

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Re: how to trace people from Ireland to Australia, marriage banns
« Reply #32 on: Sunday 17 February 13 00:46 GMT (UK) »
Some interesting details & information in the newspaper about Francis MORRIS (convict).
POLICE INTELLIGENCE. The Morning Post (London, England), Saturday, November 03, 1838.

I have posted it here:
http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/5795071/francis-morris-pdf-94k?dn=y

Offline Dundee

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Re: how to trace people from Ireland to Australia, marriage banns
« Reply #33 on: Thursday 21 February 13 14:35 GMT (UK) »
Hi Livpete,

Persons named Bridget McDONALD seem to be quite thin on the ground and I can't see an immigration record for her.

I have been pondering on this family and whether it might be Bridget's.  Having a look at the Bounty Immigrants index on FamilySearch here are some links:

Bridget McDONOUGH
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-12861-92560-71?cc=1542665&wc=814642

Mary Ann McDONOUGH
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-12861-113340-4?cc=1542665&wc=814651

Edward McDONOUGH
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-12861-86006-69?cc=1542665&wc=814622

Father Patrick died from typhus on 3 November 1839, aged 40 on the list of deaths, but 53 on the entitlement certificate.  Interesting that he was a painter and glazier.  His younger children are listed here:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-12861-86548-86?cc=1542665&wc=814652

Mother Bridget died from typhus on 12 November 1839, aged 34 on the list of deaths, but this is unlikely given the ages of her eldest children.  She has no other details recorded.

The disposal list for the North Briton:

http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/ebook/list.asp?Page=NRS5313/4_4780/North%20Briton_14%20Dec%201839/4_478000170.jpg&No=2

Patrick, Francis and Margaret were sent to the Roman Catholic Orphan School.
William, Anne and Catherine went to Reverend Mr. MARASSON? at Windsor.
Edward (page 4) went to H.C. HEMPHILL or SEMPHILL at Darlinghurst.
Bridget (page 5) went to Mr PETERS at Marulan?
Mary Ann has no disposal details listed.

I do acknowledge that they weren't from Dublin as Bridget McDONALD stated, and it may just be that Bridget's immigration record is one that has not survived, or she may have arrived under a different name.  I just think that the similarities are enough to maybe chase up the family and see if any connection can be found.

Debra  :)