Author Topic: 18th Century silk weaver - Spitalfields  (Read 16989 times)

Offline richarde1979

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Re: 18th Century silk weaver - Spitalfields
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 07 March 13 13:16 GMT (UK) »
Also in regards 'Black Silk' it was a specially prized material, as it was always in demand for mourning shawls and scarfs, etc. Until the Huguenots came it had to be imported from France as the secret of its manufacture was only known there and zealously guarded. Jean Larguier, a refugee from Nīmes, was the first one to bring it to London in 1684:

Jean Larguier, a refugee from Nīmes in Languedoc, applies to the Weavers' Company of London for admittance as a master. He claims that he can weave the fashionable 'lustring' and 'alamode' silk fabrics. 'Lustring' silk is glossy; it has a lustre to it. 'Alamode' silk is a thin glossy black silk. Neither of these silks has been made in England before. Until now, they have been imported from France.

The Weavers' Company asks him to provide a sample of his work. Some months later he comes back with a piece of alamode silk that he has 'shot' with silk of another colour. 'Shot' silk is woven with warp threads of one colour and weft threads of another. The fabric changes colour when seen from different angles.

The English weavers agree that silk of this quality has never been made in England before. They believe that the knowledge of such techniques will greatly benefit the nation.

Jean Larguier is admitted to the Weavers' Company without paying the usual fees. The only condition is that for one year he must manufacture these alamode and lustring silks and employ English workmen to make them.


A Royal Patent and Act of Parliament was passed in 1697 banning the importation of both types of silk, to encourage the domestic trade, which was succesful. By the mid 1700's the Duthoits, alongisde Zachariah Agace of Normandy, and Daniel Mesman dominated this area of the London industry.
Bellenger, Sebire, Soubien, Mallandain, Molle, Baudoin - Normandy/London
Deverdun, Bachelier, Hannoteau, Martin, Ledoux, Dumoutier, Lespine, Montenont, Picard, Desmarets - Paris & Picardy/Amsterdam/London
Mourgue, Chambon, Chabot - Languedoc/London

Holohan, Donnelly, McGowan/McGoan - Leitrim, Ireland/Dundee, Scotland/London.

Gordon, Troup, Grant, Watt, McInnes - Aberdeenshire, Scotland/London

Offline richarde1979

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Re: 18th Century silk weaver - Spitalfields
« Reply #10 on: Thursday 07 March 13 13:36 GMT (UK) »
Emmeline,

There is a six page article on the Duthoit family of London and Canterbury, in Volume 14 of the Huguenot Society's proceedings (1933). Have you seen this? If not can send you a copy. It seems Peter Duthoit of Wood Street's mother was a Mesman, so it may have been the link with that family that led the Duthoits to black silks.
Bellenger, Sebire, Soubien, Mallandain, Molle, Baudoin - Normandy/London
Deverdun, Bachelier, Hannoteau, Martin, Ledoux, Dumoutier, Lespine, Montenont, Picard, Desmarets - Paris & Picardy/Amsterdam/London
Mourgue, Chambon, Chabot - Languedoc/London

Holohan, Donnelly, McGowan/McGoan - Leitrim, Ireland/Dundee, Scotland/London.

Gordon, Troup, Grant, Watt, McInnes - Aberdeenshire, Scotland/London

Offline Emmeline

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Re: 18th Century silk weaver - Spitalfields
« Reply #11 on: Thursday 07 March 13 20:56 GMT (UK) »
Hello richarde

First, thank you for the time spent in answering my questions.

I am transcribing Peter Duthoit's Will at the moment - one always learns more from these documents.

Thank you for all the ' Black Silk ' information - all most interesting.

Re the article  on the Duthoit family I would very much appreciate having a copy. Yes, Peter's mother was Jane Mesman - all these connections !

I will send you a p.m. shortly.

Thanks again for all your wonderful input.

Regards  :)

Offline known_unknowns

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Re: 18th Century silk weaver - Spitalfields
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 12 March 13 13:09 GMT (UK) »
I was thinking about this over the weekend: it may be a property of black silk that it, because of its colour, shows up every flaw or break in its surface and takes a weaver of expert skill to weave a perfect cloth.


Offline oldfashionedgirl

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Re: 18th Century silk weaver - Spitalfields
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 12 March 13 13:58 GMT (UK) »
Richarde1979
What an interesting thread, which I have enjoyed reading.
Please could you tell me where I could look at the "Huguenot society proceedings" you quoted from.
Is it something I can look up online?
I have an ancestor who was said to be a silk mercer in Spitalfields and would like to look him up.
Cheers
OFG

Offline richarde1979

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Re: 18th Century silk weaver - Spitalfields
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 12 March 13 15:16 GMT (UK) »
Hi OFG

The proceedings is the annual journal published by the Huguenot Society since its inception in 1885

http://www.huguenotsociety.org.uk/publications/proceedings.html

They can be downloaded online, but you have to be a member of the Society to do so.

I'm happy to have a look for your man if you can give some more details.

Richard
Bellenger, Sebire, Soubien, Mallandain, Molle, Baudoin - Normandy/London
Deverdun, Bachelier, Hannoteau, Martin, Ledoux, Dumoutier, Lespine, Montenont, Picard, Desmarets - Paris & Picardy/Amsterdam/London
Mourgue, Chambon, Chabot - Languedoc/London

Holohan, Donnelly, McGowan/McGoan - Leitrim, Ireland/Dundee, Scotland/London.

Gordon, Troup, Grant, Watt, McInnes - Aberdeenshire, Scotland/London

Offline oldfashionedgirl

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Re: 18th Century silk weaver - Spitalfields
« Reply #15 on: Thursday 14 March 13 09:45 GMT (UK) »
Hi Richarde 1979

Thanks very much for your kind offer, sorry about the late reply but I was out galavanting yesterday.
Having worked 3 years on my OH highland roots i'm now picking up the geneology my mum started in the late 70s. Sorry it's all a bit scant but this is what was written by her then elderly uncle.

Robert (poss. John) Phipps (1807-1885) - sometime silk mercer at Spittalfields, London. Quote written in 1974 by said uncle "I have some specimens of his silks made for his daughter Hannahs wedding dress and later re-made for the wedding dress of his youngest daughter Harriet."

Hope you find something, thanks alot for looking.

OFG

Offline richarde1979

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Re: 18th Century silk weaver - Spitalfields
« Reply #16 on: Thursday 14 March 13 12:01 GMT (UK) »
Hello OFG

The Phipps do not appear to have been a Huguenot family so do not appear in the proceedings, though I have had a look into them and it does appear they married into Huguenot families.

The origin of the London family appears to be one Robert Phipps. He was married at the Anchors Crown Public House, Fleet Prison Liberty, Westminster, by the Reverend John Gaynam on 8 October 1730. Gaynam operated at the Fleet from 1709-1740 and self styled himself as 'the Doctor', and interestingly is described in John Southerden Burn's history of the Fleet registers as 'famed for the number of his marriages and unrivaled for notoriety of character! His nickname was 'The Bishop of Hell". Robert's bride was Ann-Maria Green, and on the record he is described as 'living in st Botolph, Aldgate, a Framework Knitter.'

I cannot find a baptism for him in that parish and suspect he was born outside London. There is an Edward Phipps, Framework Knitter, on a list of Leicester tradesmen who complained of their conditions in 1701, so he may have been from this area. Before 1721 most silk yarn was 'thrown' at home by hand, but the invention of a water-powered throwing mill by Thomas Lombe in Derby, led to the beginning of 'factory production' of silk, and the Spitalfields Manufacturers needed skilled framework knitters to operate their new machines.

Robert and Ann Marie had several children together. Two of their sons Robert and Peter went into the silk business, Robert as a throwster, Peter as a weaver.

Peter is the ancestor of your line, he was baptised 5 Dec 1736 at St Mary's, Whitechapel. He was married to Elizabeth Ferry 7 August 1764 at St Leonard's, Shoreditch. She may well have been from a Huguenot family, there were several different families by this name in London's Huguenot silk weaving community.

Peter and Elizabeth had several children baptised in East London between 1765-81. His son Robert Phipps, born 11 December 1776, baptised Christmas day 1776 at St Matthew's, Bethnal Green, was apprenticed aged 15 on 3 January 1792 as a silk weaver, to Matthew Read citizen and weaver. His elder brother Thomas had also been apprenticed to the same gentleman 7 years earlier. Their father Peter was described as a weaver on their records, of St John Street, Bethnal Green in 1785, and Mile End New Town in 1792. Peter died in 1827, leaving a will, and his adress at that time was Wilmot Street, Bethnal Green.

Robert Phipps certainly did marry into a Huguenot family. His bride was Elizabeth Rebelou, daughter of Guilluame/William Rebelou, and they were married 26 February 1805 at St Dunstan's, Stepney.

Robert John Phipps was their son, born 7 august 1807, baptised 13 september 1807 at St Matthew's, Bethnal Green.

He married Hannah Thompson 15 Aug 1832 St Stephen Coleman Street. On the 1841 census they are living, with their seven year old daughter Hannah, at the same address given for his family 56 years earlier on his uncles apprenticeship records, St John Street, Bethnal Green. His occupation is given as a silk weaver. From 1861 he is south of the river in Kent working as a brewer, later a master brewer and died there at Southborough, Kent 11 October 1885, again leaving a will.

This move was not unusual, the English silk industry had been in a long slow century long decline since the lifting of trade restrictions with France in the 1760's. It hit a particularly rocky patch in the 1820's, which it never full recovered from, and when further free trade legislation was passed in 1860 it faced virtually total collapse, at least in London. Around 90% plus left the industry at that time. The elderly ended up in the workhouses but the younger tried to find alternative work. Many of them did become publicans and brewers, my own Bellenger silk weaving ancestors did the same in this decade, I imagine because this was one business that was always thriving in Victorian London...beer shop on every corner etc. Before the rise of the Charrington mission and the abstinence movement around the turn of the century!

Hope that helps a bit, if you want me to have a look at the Rebelou family too let me know.

Regards

Richard


Bellenger, Sebire, Soubien, Mallandain, Molle, Baudoin - Normandy/London
Deverdun, Bachelier, Hannoteau, Martin, Ledoux, Dumoutier, Lespine, Montenont, Picard, Desmarets - Paris & Picardy/Amsterdam/London
Mourgue, Chambon, Chabot - Languedoc/London

Holohan, Donnelly, McGowan/McGoan - Leitrim, Ireland/Dundee, Scotland/London.

Gordon, Troup, Grant, Watt, McInnes - Aberdeenshire, Scotland/London

Offline oldfashionedgirl

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Re: 18th Century silk weaver - Spitalfields
« Reply #17 on: Thursday 14 March 13 14:00 GMT (UK) »
Wow.. thankyou so much.
What fantastic information, I am so greatful to you for taking the time.
I am now inspired with all your information to get on and sort out my side of the family tree.
The Hannah Thompson you mentioned is my GGG Grandmother.

I am blown away and speechless in grattitude.

Many, many thanks

OFG