TARTAKOVAR family history

[majm]

Marriage registration of Isaac Sutherland and Bertha Esther Tartakover, 1 June 1901, Christ Church, South Yarra. Isaac's parents James Sutherland and Mary Sutherland (Buchan).
Bertha's father Mitchell Tartakover.
Isaac's death cert. 20 January 1930, age 69, father Sutherland mother Buchan.wife Bertha Tartakover. No issue.
Bertha's death cert. 4 August 1924, age 54, husband Isaac Sutherland. No issue.
Items I left out were residents, cause of death witnesses were burried ECT

BUT
How do any of the above documents actually help you to validate/ confirm if you have a family  connection to the  1791 SUTHERLAND connection that pwh wrote about ....

J M

MSHarmer

                 By looking  at   one of your old  posts  courtesy of majm  i see there  is a reference
to a  John and Janet  Sutherland  in 1791  in or around Caithness.  The Sutherland  in  my
fathers  line  would i think be around  that time in Caithness. I  do not know if  there is  a
Caithness link  between our families but having the same family  name in such a small  place
should give some credence to the idea. You might also interested  in the fact  another  Sutherland,
Dame Joan Sutherland  has a family link to the same place.
                                                                                          Pwh

[M S Harmer]

The parents of Jame's (Isaac's father) are James Sutherland and Janet Sinclair married 22 Nov. 1816 Harpsdale. Have cert.
Isaac's father James was born 23 Jan. 1831
Parents James Sutherland and Janet Sinclair.
Have cert.

[sparrett]

Also Isaac's middle name would have been Buchan not Buchanan, his mother's name was Mary Buchan
Regards

I have not seen a document which gives this man the second name of Buchan.
Are you aware of the other man named Isaac Buchan SUTHERLAND in Victoria around the same time?

The Electoral Rolls show Isaac SUTHERLAND as various occupations including artist and inventor.
A search of the National Archives will bring up some of his applications for patent.

 Sue
 

[majm]

Yes,  Sue is spot on    Easily found both those Isaac chaps...

There is a birth indexed at VIC BDM online for an Isaac Buchanan SUTHERLAND, parents as Robert SUTHERLAND and Agnes CASHLEY, locality abbreviation given as LEIG. It is for 1864,  ref #9507

There is a death indexed there too, Isaac Buchanan SUTHERLAND, mother as Agnes ASHLEY and father as Robert Buchanan SUTHERLAND, locality given as Malvern East.  It is for 1939, #1392

AND there is a death  indexed there that may be significant …. Isaac SUTHERLAND,  father as SUTHERLAND, mother as BUCHAN, neither has a given name displayed.  Locality as Richmond.  It is for 1930, and the ref # 3112.

The parents of Jame's (Isaac's father) are James Sutherland and Janet Sinclair married 22 Nov. 1816 Harpsdale. Have cert.
Isaac's father James was born 23 Jan. 1831
Parents James Sutherland and Janet Sinclair.
Have cert.

So which of these people were ancestors of which Isaac SUTHERLAND?




JM

[majm]

 

William Alexander SUTHERLAND And Ethel Hannah PAYNE’s daughter, Gladys Ethel was born in District of Adelaide, South Australia.  Her birth registration has the year as 1911.   Their marriage was in Adelaide and for the year 1910.   Gladys married Urwin Kempson HARMER in 1936, in District of Adelaide.
1928 death of William Alexander SUTHERLAND, District of Adelaide
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=554403.0

To me, the question  is about William Alexander SUTHERLAND and how is he connected with pwh’s 1791 James Buchanan SUTHERLAND  ....

I am sure Martin and Peter will have it all sorted before tomorrow morning...  and will let us all know how those dots joined up....

JM

[majm]

Here's a good starting point... 

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/87571008 1 Dec 1928.  Chronicle ( Adelaide newspaper)
Obit for William Alexander SUTHERLAND, aged 83. born Inverness, Scotland. 


JM

[M S Harmer]

Wrong one our William Alexander died aged 53, in Gilberton Adelaide. 1936. Step brother to Isaac. Through Jame's second marriage to Martha Tulloch.

[majm]

Wrong one our William Alexander died aged 53, in Gilberton Adelaide. 1936. Step brother to Isaac. Through Jame's second marriage to Martha Tulloch.

 


So there must have been quite a few  chaps named William Alexander SUTHERLAND in Adelaide in the 1920s and 1930s ...   
 
One died in 1937  #588/685
One died in 1936  # 584/4019
One died in 1928  #5078/275

1937  was aged 41 ... https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/41622787
1928 was aged 83 ...https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/29319629

JM

[majm]

Hi All, here it is, next morning …

I am sure both pwh and MS well know my views on using official documents to validate information and to go back to earlier generations on family tree charts.  Of course what any family history buff uses for their own purposes is up to them, but when sharing information on public forums, we need to use caution, we need to be responsible, we need to be confident that others can test the validity of our statements about people we may believe are our ancestors … Why … well perhaps because none of us has any knowledge of who will use that information now or at any time in the future.   

I had expected that this morning there would be a lengthy post from Martin showing how he has verified that William Alexander SUTHERLAND, father of Gladys is descended from the 1791 James SUTHERLAND that pwh has mentioned, and that pwh would have replied to Martin showing that he either refuted, confirmed or sought further details so it would be 'Pending’ ....

Nothing ...

so I will be blunt ...  there's nothing yet posted on this thread to confirm that William Alexander SUTHERLAND descends from the 1791 James,  and there's nothing yet to confirm that pwh descends from that 1791 James either.   

Martin mentioned that his William Alexander SUTHERLAND was step brother to Isaac Buchan SUTHERLAND … their father being James SUTHERLAND. 

Did that James die in South Australia ….  If so,  doubtful if there would be much family history info on his d.c.   but perhaps there will be an Obit or some IM notices available via Trove which may name all his children, from each marriage ……  Perhaps the d.c. would be 200/409, an online index has the date as 26 Feb 1892, Gilberton, S.A.

Did that James migrate to South Australia … well there is an online index that has a chap by that name as arriving at age 21,   departing Plymouth, Devon, England  16 June 1851, arriving Adelaide, S.A. 14 September 1851 – the index has his place of origin as Caithness, his occupation as Agricultural labourer.   BUT … the question of course to me is … how to join the dots  back from Martin’s William Alexander SUTHERLAND…   or from Peter's Isaac Buchanan SUTHERLAND - likely husband of Emma (see earlier post re Vic BDM online index listing of two chaps named Isaac SUTHERLAND, one married to Bertha Tartakovar, and the other to Emma Stewart or Sinclair)...
 
So, from Bertha’s 1901 marriage cert, which is a Victorian BDM document, so very detailed, what is the exact information that that document records that her husband, Isaac SUTHERLAND gave about himself and about both his parents …  If it is difficult to decipher,  I am absolutely certain that RChat’s rules allow for a snip of the relevant section to be uploaded as an attachment.

JM