William John Spence (Approx 1830-1919)

[Peggy13]

the informant was William Jr.'s son Samuel Gibson Barron Spence who would have been 17 when Wm. Sr. died and 47 when Wm Jr., his father, died. Odds are that he would be likely to know both ancestors who lived in same town as Samuel.

[aghadowey]

It's not at all uncommon to find incorrect details on a death certificate no matter how well the deceased was known to the informant. In this case the registrar or the informant could have put down the wrong name. In any event Ivan was not commonly used in Ireland when he lived here and even then I don't think it looks like Ivan.

[MQSP]

Hi folks,

I'm not convinced it says Ivan either. Nor do I think it is a mistake. It is a contraction of William 'Wm'. Look at the squiggle below. It's not related to 'Ireland' it is to signify a contraction. I have seen this elsewhere.

I would be interested to see the document related to William Sr as William I Spence.

With Andrew it may be he did not know his father. If he was the youngest of William Sr this would be entirely plausible and I think this is the most likely hypothesis for the moment. If his whole family left he may have lost contact with them. He may have considered his father dead in a rhetorical sense when recorded. William Sr could have had a small holding and been a stonemason or a farmer who liked to call himself a stonemason which he might have done on the side. No way of knowing but again plausible. If I could see that William I Spence document it would seal it for me until I can firm it up (or otherwise) with church records.

As you say when William Jr left Andrew was still an adolescent. Or he could have been illegitimate as I have considered before. Apparently it was common for fallen mothers to name their children for the father even in absense.

We have a family bible from Andrew. He began a family tree in the bible starting with himself. Seems odd he excluded his own parents. He may have felt abandoned or shame.

My Grandfather was born after Andrew died, since Andrew died relatively young. It would seem Herbert, my Grt Grandfather and Andrew's only surviving son did not talk about him. My dad has no recollection of Herbert talking about his father.

[Peggy13]

Well, it may not be Ivan but I think it is.  At the very least, I think the first letter looks exactly like the I in Ireland below. I realize Wm is often used for William but it doesn't look like that to me.
there is a family tree online, on familysearch.org,  info by  slightizer2768157, which has William I Spence, May 1805 County Antrim, Ireland, Death 7 March 1890 Arnprior, ON Burial Arnprior, ON (Albert Street Cemetery). I cannot say if it is correct or not.
I can't think that William Sr. would have left his youngest behind. I have been looking into the family more the last few days, and Wm. Jr. did live in Belfast when children Ellen, Ezekiel David and Margaret Jane were born. I don't know if William Jr. had a middle name.
Peggy

[MQSP]

Cheers for your help Peggy.

That is definitely a 'Wm'. The line underneath denotes a contraction. I have seen exactly the same format on other Registry documents for various Williams.

The dramatic writing style is just the authors style of cursive.

Cheers,

M.

[Rosniak]

Hi MQSP

You mentioned earlier in this thread that you were going to do a Family tree DNA test. I hope that also includes family finder (as well as Y) as I know some Spence family members have completed both tests on there and you are likely to find some valuable test results to compare with.

Please let me know when your results are complete as so as I can look for matches.

[MQSP]

Hi,

I am sticking to Family Tree. I am already on Ancestry and 23&me. I think three is enough.

Family Tree was recommended by a genetic link on Ancestry who happens to be the genetic genealogy coordinator for the North of Ireland Family History Society.

I can see candidates on the Spence project on that site too.

I have just ordered the basic test for now as it is on sale. It looks like you can upgrade easily to Y and MtDNA at a later date.