William John Spence (Approx 1830-1919)

[Peggy13]

thank you Jason Mac. I will have to wait until I get to Ireland or ask someone to look for me. I have not looked at this branch of the family for a long time. William's birth is reportedly May 1805 which helps to narrow things down, IF he was baptised in this church.
Peggy

[MQSP]

Thankyou all for the valuable info.

Peggy, I agree with you re the stated link between all of these families. Someone did build a tree linking three familes. 1. Templepatrick Spences. 2. Ballykennedy Spences. 3. Magheramesk Spences.

I came across this as I researched the Ballykennedy clan, which I had researched early on because I had been focusing on William John Spence candidates in and around Belfast. I splt them out and did the usual GRO checks for each of them.

I have seen examples in other branches where some LDS researchers have made a habit out of making erroneous links. When I have contacted those who have published these trees they tend not to respond which raises my suspicions. I find it quite frustrating. I try to properly reference all my finds.

That said it is still plausible they could be connected considering the size of familes back then and proximity. Maybe someone else has done all of this before. Completing the desktop research will be important hopfully supported by genetic research. I am going to order a FamilyTree DNA pack to take part in the various family research projects hosted on that website. Aside from the link to your Spence family established via Ancestry DNA test I also share the Haplogroup Group with William Spence Snr via the Spence project on FamilyTree (I have my Haplogroup from 23andme).

I will be back in Belfast in a couple of weeks for a wedding. While I won't be able to dedicate much time to record hunting I might try to steal an hour or two test this hypothesis. Looking at Templepatrick and Dundrod Presbyterian records (Dundrod being the closest Presbyterian Church to Tullyrusk.

Best M.

[MQSP]

Peggy;

Re. William Snr details it is interesting they emmigrated around that time. Just hypothesising here but Andrew - my confirmed ancestor was born in 1860 (assuming he knew his correct age). Maybe he was too young to travel and raised by family locally? Another thought I have had is the Printshop Road association. Printshop Road links Lylehill with Ballymather. Andrew worked in the printing industry all his life. I wonder if there was a printing business in that area, he could have served an apprenticeship. Maybe he was not able to leave with William Jr and family when they emmigrated at a later date. All speculation but potential leads.

[Peggy13]

William Jr. emigrated 1872 as per the 1901 and 1911 Canadian Censuses, making Andrew abt 12. But William Jr. had a legitimate son John Barron Spence abt June 5, 1860 in Ireland.
When William Jr. died in 1920, the death certificate has his father as Ivan Spence (as best I can tell). I did see a record before with his father as William I. Spence but I thought perhaps the J had been mistakenly read as an I - now I have to rethink that.
Peggy

[MQSP]

Hmmm. Confusing. So John Barron Spence emmigrated to Canda with William Jr and his wife and obviously has his mothers maiden name as middle name. Seems pretty clearly their son. Odd that his fathers name was listed as Ivan on his death certificate. I wonder what that is about. J would certainly be more convenient.

Important to remember Andrew's dob is estimated as I don't have any birth or baptismal records yet.

He could be William Sr's Youngest or one of William Jr's eldest as there is a cross-over apparently. I wonder if William Sr had two wives, only the church records will tell.

I just came across this btw:

https://www.planningni.gov.uk/index/policy/development_plans/devplans_az/lisburn_llpas.pdf

search 'Spence'.

There is a Rath in Maghaberry known as 'Spence's Fort'. About 12 miles from Dundrod and very near the Magheramersk clan.

[Peggy13]

I have looked up both of Andrew's marriages and his father is given as William John Spence, farmer and in 1884 his father is deceased. I would say that eliminates both my William Sr. who died in 1890 in Canada and Jr. who died in 1920. Also my William Sr was a stone mason and Jr was a bricklayer. Now we also have indication that William Sr. could be William Ivan as per William Jr.'s death certificate. Getting interesting.
Peggy

[aghadowey]

I would be sceptical about the use of Ivan as a Irish Christian in that period.

[Peggy13]

Not sure I can do this but will try. I did see William I. on another record but please see attached death record for William Jr. which shows his parents.
Peggy

[aghadowey]

I don't think it says 'Ivan' but even if it does that doesn't mean the information gave the correct information.