Lost Great Grandfather Ashbourne Derbyshire

[Kaseydog]

Hi, I am trying to find my Great Grandfather William Edmund Richards born 1855 he gives his birth place as Ashbourne Derbyshire but I cannot seem to find anything. I have him from his marriage  at Hanbury Staffordshire in 1878 to a Sarah Bowen of Hanbury with a father called George a labourer all from his marriage certificate and in all census 1881 to 1911, also his death certificate in 1936 which does not show a birth date or place. He had Eight children between 1879 and 1898. Two of them went to Canada and died there.
I have tried all the obvious lines of inquiry, can there be something I have not tried.
Thanks in anticipation, R. 

[KGarrad]

On the 1881 census, if he is the William with daughter Margaret, he gives his birthplace as Crich.
So perhaps this is William in 1871?

Reference RG10, Piece 3587, Folio 40, Page 25
Tutchley, Crich, Derbyshire

Parents William(46) and Mary Richards (39).
Children John (19), William(17), Samuel(13), Margaret(12), Martha(9), Elizabeth(7) and Mary Ann(2 months).

As I can't find William in 1851 or 1841, I was wondering whether his mother remarried Mr Richards, and that your William had a different surname at birth?

[Derbysderek]

Well..William Richards was definitely not baptised at Ashbourne..wherever he was born.

The William Richards of Crich..son of William and Mary was actually born 25.04.1853..but not baptised until 24.06.1867, along with his brother Samuel............

You make mention of a father "George", but not make it clear whether tis is the father of William or of Sarah..though the father's name would be on the certificate............on that basis you might consider

WILLIAM RICHARDS baptised 25.04.1858 at Longford son of George and Rebecca........Longford is only five miles from Ashbourne...

Derek.

[Derbysderek]

...in addition to my previous message..you appear to have another problem....the two William and Sarah.s appear to be different couples......

William Richards of Crich..masons apprentice then Wire drawer married to Sarah of Belper Derbyshire

William Richards of Ashbourne..Gardener's Labourer married to Sarah from Hanbury Staffordshire..bear in mind also that "Ashbourne" is a Civil registration District, covering a large part of Derbyshire..as well as being a parish.

Derek.

[Derbysderek]

I'm beginning to think that the Crich data is irrelevant..and that William in fact came from Ashbourne (Longford??)......he married Sarah Bowen.. daughter of George and Julia Burton on trent district (i.e. Hanbury) in 1878..............now according to the 1911 census..he and Sarah had 8 children..all surviving by 1911..and \i have accounted for them all..born between 1880 and 1894............They DO NOT include a margaret born Stockport Cheshire 1875..daughter of William and sarah Richards..of Crich and Belper respectively........

Against this reasoning is that fact that the two families do not actually overlap..so are not mutually exclusive..William Richards of Crich (which is in the Ashbourne registration District) could have married a Sarah at Belper in 1875..had a daughter Margaret in Stockport 1875..........and either dumped them. or they died..and remarried 1878 in Staffs.....................COULD HAVE....except that Margaret  daughter of William and Sarah  was not baptised till 30.08.1877......and none of them died at Crich.....
......William Richards coul

Derek.d have re-invented himself after 1877 and suddenly got into gardening.......etc etc....but we need some feedback from you........

[spendlove]

Hi,

This is a long shot:-

1871 RG10/2193 F 61 Pg 1
Lichfield, Staffs.

Buckton  Maria  33 (1838) born Lichfield, Staffs
with children
William Richards 15
Mary Richards 13   both state born Chesterfield, Staffordshire - which is an incorrect County.
(there are also Bucton children).

A Maria Richards = Septimus Bucton June Q 1862 Lichfield

1881 Maria still in Lichfield  RG11/2772 F 59 Pg 1
But without the Richards Children

1881 Mary is a Visitor
St. Pancras London  RG11/210 F 86 Pg 4 still stating born Chesterfield Staffordshire

1891 Maria Bucton + Mary Richards still stating born Chesterfield Staffordshire are in Fulham
RG12/45 F 68 Pg 8

1901 Mary HH Richards is a servant in Richmond, Surrey and her Mother is visiting.
Again Mary states Chesterfield, Staffordshire but enumerator has changed to Derby but Ancestry
transcriber has ignored this
RG13/674 F 28 Pg 9

As I say a long shot, but stands out because of the Chesterfield Staffordshire error, so did
neither Mary or William actually know where they were born?

Spendlove.

[mootoak]

There is definitely a Chesterfield in Staffordshire, it's near Lichfield. Don't know if this makes any difference to the debate

mootoak

[Derbysderek]

Would be handy if Kaseydog came back to the thread!!!!!!

[Kaseydog]

Hi, Have been away,
                            This method of threads is new to me so please be patient.
 I think the long shot is a no go as I can account for him from 1878 till his death in 1936.
My concern is from his supposed birth at Ashbourne in  1855 until 1878. Two censuses with not record.
I also think Crich is out of the running although there appears to be a George Richards & Hannah Bunting born Crich in the 1851 census at Ashbourne, he being a FWK.  Not a labourer as shown on Georges marriage cert. I cannot see him calling his father a labourer when he was a FWK.
Going back to Ashbourne, there are around 30 parishes within a radius of Ashbourne an possibly some non conformists chapels in those.
At this time I am trawling the 1871 Staffordshire census in the areas around the Staffs / Derby borders to see if anyting has been missed.
Rod.