James and Ann Duffy family 1800 to 1849, Sligo/Mayo borders

[CazzieD99]

I am trying to to trace origin of my Duffy ancestors, James and Ann Duffy born around 1800 and their children Patrick (1829), Anthony (1831), Mary (1836), James (1838), Thomas (1841) and Ann (1843) all born in Ireland. They appear on the Huddersfield, Yorkshire 1851 census lodging with another Duffy family, James and Bridget (né Kingsley) Duffy, probably relatives, who had arrived in Huddersfield before 1840. My Grandmother always said they were from Sligo near the Mayo borders. I'd be grateful for any information on either family. Nothing in any census or church record in the UK or US (to where some finally emigrated) nor marriage certificates has so far shed any light as to their birthplace.

[heywood]

Hello and welcome to Rootschat 

Unfortunately your family were born much before civil registration records and therefore you would be relying on parish records for which you would need more detailed information.

Here are some pointers: My Ancestors came from Ireland

Introduction to Irish Records

I will also add a note to your other posts - it is difficult to know where to place your post initially.

regards
heywood

[CazzieD99]

Many thanks for your quick response. I have trawled through the many census returns and BMD certificates both in the UK and US in which my family appear and so far no place name is mentioned. However another Duffy family, who were neighbours in Huddersfield, were from Swinford, Co Mayo, though I can't prove a relationship, except the Swinford Duffys were one of the first Duffy families to arrive in Huddersfield (there were about 6 or 7 in 1851) and my family appear to be the last.  This area of Mayo is reasonably close to the Sligo border so that would fit my Grandmother's story that they came from the Sligo/Mayo border. There is also a strange entry on a US Federal census which states Ann Duffy, the daughter b.1843, as being from Maine. This was on a census some 30 years after her death in New Jersey, filled out by a son-in-law who never knew her, so he may have mistaken Maine for Mayo.
James Duffy was born 1801 and Ann Duffy 1804. They must have married some time between 1822 and 1828. Their first child Patrick was born in 1829. They were Roman Catholic. I know a lot about what happened to them once they arrived in England (about 1848) but nothing of their life in Ireland.
In your view, is it worth starting with the Parish records for Swinford for this period and working outwards and towards and into Sligo or would this be too greater task? If not, is it possible and how do I go about it? Many thanks.

[heywood]

Here is a link to another thread re the Swinford area for parish records

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,375200.0.html

and also this shows the coverage for Swineford

[oishiidesu]

A couple more thoughts to add to the advice already offered...

If your ancestors farmed more than an acre of land then they should be recorded in the Tithe Applotments which were complied 1823-1837.  The Tithes are a useful census substitute and are now on-line at the National Archives.  They can be searched for free at http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/home.jsp .

A few James Duffys show up in the Tithes in both Sligo and Mayo, and you can filter these by parish or townland.  This may help focus your parish records search.

Secondly, remember that the Mayo/Sligo border changed in 1899.  For example, Ardnaree was in Sligo before 1899 but became part of Mayo after 1899.

Good luck!

[CazzieD99]

Thank you very much for your suggestions. I'll follow them up. There is a good chance my James Duffy had more than an acre.

One question: is there a resource giving information on which church records are relevant to which parish listed in the Tithe Applotment books, and where these can be inspected? And are there any maps online showing the then county boundaries?

Many thanks.

[oishiidesu]

Good questions.  I don't know of a specific resource that maps the Tithes to the available church records, but presumably you could just search using the appropriate parish names.

The map that I find most useful for locating townlands and parishes is at "Ask about Ireland":

http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=placeSearch

It allows you to search for a townland or parish by name and then displays it on an old 1800's ordnance survey (OS) map superimposed on a modern Google map.  The OS map is marked with the townlands and parishes which should be the same as listed in the Tithes, while the Google map shows the current Sligo/Mayo border as a dotted line.  You can move a slider to vary the relative intensities of the two superimposed maps.  It's brilliant!

In the absence of the exact pre-1899 border locations (I believe that the changes were relatively minor), it would seem to make sense to just include any James-Duffys that are located near to the current County border on both sides, then you should be covered.

Good hunting!

[shanew147]

You can match up civil parishes, as used by the Tithes and Griffiths, against RC parishes as they were in the 1830s using Lewis Topographical Directory of 1837. A copy is available is available on the Library Ireland website.

see : http://www.libraryireland.com/topog/

To work out the relevant RC details look towards the end of an entry for a civil aprish - e.g. for the parish on Kilconduff which contains the town of Swinforn you see : '...In the R. C. divisions it is the head of a union or district, comprising also Meelick, and containing a chapel in each.'

So in this case the RC parish contained two civil parishes, as well as the town, and could be called Kilconduff, Meelick or a combination of those, or in many cases named after the principle town - i.e. in this case Swinford. One you have possible RC parish names you can check the NLI film index.

You can also use the RC parish maps of the Irish Times/John Grenham website. This includes maps of the RC parishes, lists of the civil parishes and townlands included in each, and also dates available for records for each RC parish

see : RC Parish Maps

Note that some adjustments occurred as a result of the detailed mapping carried out by the Ordnance Survey in the 1830s, so on the Tithes a few townlands appear in parishes adjacent to where they appear in later references - e.g. 1851 Townland Index, Griffith's etc


Shane

[CazzieD99]

Thank you both for those two helpful responses. The map links are fantastic, as is the information on the Irish Times site. I'm only stuck on one placename: Sarderra in Achonry Parish. I can't seem to find it on any map, or have I missed something? There is a James Duffy listed in Sarderra in 1827 in the Tithe Applotment Books. If you can shed any light on this, again I'd be really grateful.

Caroline