Author Topic: Birth Records "look up" London area, Lambeth, Mile End Old Town? Help? :)  (Read 5823 times)

Offline dawnsh

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Re: Birth Records "look up" London area, Lambeth, Mile End Old Town? Help? :)
« Reply #9 on: Sunday 20 January 13 00:59 GMT (UK) »
Hi Brian

Unless their names are written in horrendous handwriting or horribly mis-transcribed, they didn't marry at St Dunstans, and there are no other matches in the various marriage indexes we have available to us. At this stage I would suggest they didn't marry in England, for whatever reasons.

If they weren't married at the time Maude came along, her birth might be registered under another surname or not at all, it wasn't unusual for illegitimate births to fall between the cracks in the registration system.

Dawn

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Sherry-Paddington & Marylebone,
Longhurst-Ealing & Capel, Abinger, Ewhurst & Ockley,
Chandler-Chelsea

Offline BwNoLa

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Re: Birth Records "look up" London area, Lambeth, Mile End Old Town? Help? :)
« Reply #10 on: Sunday 20 January 13 07:45 GMT (UK) »
Dawn,

I'm confused.  just because one doesn't find a marriage license wouldn't mean that they didnt have birth certificates for their children... I have my great grandmother's birth certificate in London already.  "maude" is same Catherine Maude Clarke, she was 8 month at time of census NOT 8 years old.  I have ALL census records and such I need from then on.

I just need the birth records and as someone else said in earlier one line reply, I need to purchase such documents as the GRO or volunteer can't go to view record before one purchases the record.

Maybe Fred and Annie went some other place to marry, or had ceremony another place besides St Dunstan's or maybe they didn't "marry" at all, it's just a piece of paper otherwise to me.

THANK YOU truly for checking for me and for your help and input.

cheers,
brian

Offline dawnsh

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Re: Birth Records "look up" London area, Lambeth, Mile End Old Town? Help? :)
« Reply #11 on: Sunday 20 January 13 12:01 GMT (UK) »
Hi Brian

It is a known fact that although civil regitration started in 1837, a number of births weren't recorded between 1837 and 1875 when there was a change in the registration law. There are several reasons, the main one being that many people considered a baptism to be sufficient, as it was being a member of a parish that was the way you accessed aid if you became needy. The 'parish' not the state was responsible for you. The other was illegitimacy and the stigma attached to having a child out of wedlock in some social circles.

Thank you for adding that the census has recorded an incorrect age for Maude, the chatters here can only look at the records available to them and don't have the benefit of family information.

As an 'outsider', looking at the birth registrations in the index, it is easy to suppose that the entries you have found aren't the same siblings as Lambeth is south of the river Thames and historically in Surrey and Mile End is North of the river and in the East End of London. The only way to be sure is to buy a copy from the GRO. The actual details aren't online and will require a change in the law and a huge financial investment by the GRO which, as a governemt department, is subject to severe financial constraints.

Researchers don't have direct access to the actual details of births, marriages and deaths as recorded in the registrars registers. We try to use other resources such as transcribed baptism, marriage and burial registers which used to be published by Family History Societies. These are becoming more readily available online usually on subscription sites. It would seem that your family went down the state route and registered the births of their children but didn't have them baptised into the Anglican faith, you tend not to find non-conformist, Catholic, Jewish or Quaker records online. Your family may of course fit into these latter categories.

I mentioned the Banns as couples had to pay to have them called. To keep expenses down, even if they were resident in different parishes, they would have the Banns called at one church only. The other route would be to be married by licence which removed the need for Banns, but this was a more expensive route to go down but meant that the other parishners know that you were planning a wedding.

As Frederick & Amelia had the Banns partially called St Dunstans you would expect to see a marriage very soon after at the church. However in ths instance there isn't a subsequent marriage there or at any other Anglican parish in the area or in the indexes for 1865. If they had married at another denomination or the register office you would expect to see an entry in the index. If you need to pursue this, you would need to contact the local register office and ask them to search all of the other marriage registers for that registration district. I know that the GRO do not have the facility to search if you think an entry is missing but you don't know where specifically the marriage took place.

Hope this helps.

Dawn
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Sherry-Paddington & Marylebone,
Longhurst-Ealing & Capel, Abinger, Ewhurst & Ockley,
Chandler-Chelsea

Offline BwNoLa

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Re: Birth Records "look up" London area, Lambeth, Mile End Old Town? Help? :)
« Reply #12 on: Sunday 20 January 13 12:16 GMT (UK) »
Dawn,

Yes, thank you very much.  All information helps.  I should just go straight to finding GRO offices and roll the dice, send off the funds. 

I certainly now have to research and try to undestand what the "Called the Banns" stuff mean. Always something to learn.

cheers
Brian



Offline dawnsh

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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Sherry-Paddington & Marylebone,
Longhurst-Ealing & Capel, Abinger, Ewhurst & Ockley,
Chandler-Chelsea

Online KGarrad

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Re: Birth Records "look up" London area, Lambeth, Mile End Old Town? Help? :)
« Reply #14 on: Sunday 20 January 13 13:53 GMT (UK) »
I should just go straight to finding GRO offices and roll the dice, send off the funds. 

For GRO, go to http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp

Cost is £9.25.

Do NOT use any other service, as they will charge you about £20 for the same certificate!


It is also possible to use a local Register Office, which covers the district and parish where the event took place. Cost is slightly more than GRO.
See http://maps.direct.gov.uk/LDGRedirect/MapAction.do?ref=grolight
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

Offline dawnsh

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Re: Birth Records "look up" London area, Lambeth, Mile End Old Town? Help? :)
« Reply #15 on: Sunday 20 January 13 14:49 GMT (UK) »
Quote
It is also possible to use a local Register Office, which covers the district and parish where the event took place. Cost is slightly more than GRO.

They might also charge you extra for shipping overseas, the GRO charge a flat rate of £9.25 inclusive of postage, even worldwide.
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Sherry-Paddington & Marylebone,
Longhurst-Ealing & Capel, Abinger, Ewhurst & Ockley,
Chandler-Chelsea

Offline BwNoLa

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Re: Birth Records "look up" London area, Lambeth, Mile End Old Town? Help? :)
« Reply #16 on: Sunday 20 January 13 15:34 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Dawn and Kgarrad,

I already ordered few records just now from GRO... sadly I may not know if I got the right things til after I see them and of course, been billed for them :( 

I "thought" having people "look up" things was something different then what it seems to be.  We can go to our Archives in person, look at documents and just pay for cost of a copy if it's what we want.  I see it's not the same other places in the world.

cheers

Online KGarrad

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Re: Birth Records "look up" London area, Lambeth, Mile End Old Town? Help? :)
« Reply #17 on: Sunday 20 January 13 16:13 GMT (UK) »
With most archives in the UK, it's the same.
You can look at what's available and pay for a copy.

Birth, Marriage and Death Certificates are a different thing altogether! ::)
There is an online petition out there in the ether, to get basic info at a cheaper cost?
But it would take the Register Office, or GRO, just as long to dig out the information, so I don't think that's going to happen!
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)