Peter Lawlanier - I think!!

[John1935]

That sounds promising Richard, Yes Lucy was born not far away, so maybe his father was one of the Huguenot weavers who escaped from St Quentin ? Have you any details please on the Hospital entry.

Great thanks to all for mamoth effort.

Best

John

p.s. Think we could call this completed, but if it could be kept on a little longer ? I might pick up more on the family Please

[Ruskie]

But if the surname doesn't end in "ier" it may not be French or Huguenot ... 

[richarde1979]

The Hospital entry relates to a Marie, widow of Robert L'allemande, age 65 years, her late father from St Quentin. So it is actually her family from St Quentin region. That said fair likelyhood the Lallemands were too as they tended to keep regional ties in the early years in London. For example the surname does have several entrys on Jean Paul Roelly's site.

One interesting one is the marriage of Robert Lalleman of Valenciennes, to Rachel the daughter of Louis Crommelin of St Quentin. Both families were wealthy cloth manufacturers and merchants. The Crommelins were probably the most important of the Calvinist families in St Quentin. Rachel's brother Louis Jr restarted the family business in exile in Ireland and bought over many Huguenots with him. The Crumlin Road in Belfast is named after him.


Ruskie is right in as much there were certainly just as many English silk weavers in the East End at this time. That said the fact his address is given as Spitalfields would point towards French Huguenot, as the English weavers at that date tended to live more in Shoreditch on the fringes of Spitalfields rather than in the parish itself. Also the Huguenot refugees marrying outside the community did not become the norm until the second half of the 18th century, and then this usually applied to the grandchildren and great grandchildren of the original wave of refugees to the area 1678-1698.

As we know Lucy/Louise was a first generation refugee coming to England with her parents aged 6, so it is probable she would have lived a fairly insular life within her own community, she would have been educated within the French Church schools, and it would not have been usual for her to have spoken much if any English at that date, which makes the idea of her marrying outside the community less likely, not impossible, but less likely.

[richarde1979]

I can't find any trace of a Peter/Pierre using this surname in London or born there, only reference to anyone by that name I can find is in the 1987 book "The Huguenots and Ireland"

"Pierre Francis Lalleman went to Dublin for business reasons in 1729, aged 24, Pierre Lalleman was later a merchant in Dublin"

He would seem a bit old to be Lucy's husband, but not impossible.

A Lalleman family seems to have run a Cognac business in both London and Dublin at this time, and dominated the early trade alongside Richard Hennessy and Jean Martel. (mentioned 28 times in 'The Brandy Trade under the Ancien Régime' )

Whether the above Pierre was linked to this family I do not know. Can't  find any trace of a death in London for Peter, or Lucy/Louise for that matter, or any children. If they moved to Ireland might explain it, but of course the marriage has him as a silk weaver in Spitalfields which doesn't seem to fit. Unless he went over to Dublin to work with the Crommelins through the St Quentin link?

Food for thought.

[richarde1979]

This seems to be the Marie who was a patient of the French Hospital, died 1768, born circa 1686

The Artillery French Huguenot, Spitalfields,
Marie Lalemand, born 17 August, baptised 26 August 1721daughter of Robert and Marie Lalemand, baptised by Monsieur Barbauld, witnesses Philippe Caout and Marie Maison.


Royal Bounty Payments
Robert Lalman, his wife & child, commoners, ordinary payment,  Petticoat Lane District, department of London and Spitalfields 2 pounds 11 shillings  1721-3

Robert Laleman, 50 years old, his wife and one child, commoners, ordinary payment 1 pound 2 shillings 6 pence Petticoat Lane District, department of London and Spitalfields 1727-8

Robert Laleman, Commoner, ordinary payment 1 pound 14 shillings Petticoat Lane District, department of London and Spitalfields 1728-9


The dates would certainly have fit very nicely for her and Robert to be parents to Peter/Pierre, but the evidence there seems to strongly suggest they only had the one child Marie, who was later married so did survive.

[John1935]

Do you think with a name like that, he could have been Dutch, If so I suppose that  he would be attached to the Walloon Church in London ?

It seems certain that he was a weaver and lived in the Christchurch area of Spitalfields, which I understand was not a bad address at that time for weavers ?

It does appear  that Laulanie is ruled out, only one I can find was Ferdinand 1858 - 1906 from Agen. The more you look the more I think the name ending is 'man', which doesn't seem French, against that I don't think our Lucy was multilingual

Best

John

[richarde1979]

"Lallemant is a French surname that may originate in the phrase "l’Allemand", meaning "the German." Variants of the name include: Laleman, Lalemand, Lalemant, Lalleman, L'allemand, and Lallemand." From Wikipedia

Valenciennes was part of the Walloon speaking region in northern France, so the family may have been Walloon, but since this area was annexed into France under Louis XIV, they were French too by that time. They would have used the French Huguenot churches in London. Most of the Huguenot churches in London and Holland were originally founded by Walloon refugees in the 16th century, then were more or less taken over by Huguenots in the next two centuries as they became the predominant Francophone refugees in those countries.

Spitalfields was a mixed bag. The weaving manufactuers lived pretty well in the streets around Spital Square, Christchurch Spitalfields, and Norton Folgate. But the majority of the weavers, even the master weavers, lived in crowded housing in the streets to the north of the parish, i.e Wheeler Street, Pheonix Street, St John Street, and to the south around Artillery Lane. The journeymen weavers were not far above the breadline, they needed constant help to survive during the arctic winters of the early 1740's from the Spitalfields 'soup', and from the 1760's onwards certainly life was a real struggle for them. They marched on parliament that decade and were described as 'walking skeletons'.

[Ruskie]

I am trying to think of the name of someone (I think in the media), who had a surname very similar sounding to Lawlaman, but I just can't quite remember it .... I will keep racking my brains. 

[Ruskie]

I am considering how the surname would sound if spoken, because it may have been misheard or misinterpreted. These are a few possibilites, though I don't think any exists as a real surname:
Lawlerman
Laulerman
Lorlerman
Lawlaman
Also, have you traced Lucy, her family and previous marriage in case this gives you some clues as to orgins?