Surname Karcolak

[Phaydra]

Has anyone ever heard of this surname? I have been told it's hungarian, but im getting nowhere. All i know is that apparently a family with this surname is living in budapest, but i have no way of getting any info because i don't speak the language and live in canada. can anyone help? does anyone know any origins of this surname, or what it's meaning may be??

Phaydra

[carinthiangirl]

because of ending -ak normally it would be polish.
in any case it´s an slavic ending, hungarian is another language-family.
Karol = polish form for Carl.
but karcol, karcolás in hungarian = scratch 
http://hude.dict.cc/?s=karcol
http://hude.dict.cc/?s=karcol%C3%A1s
mmmhh.....

-ak: Bujak means "an adventurer", buj - a kind of have to hang around, climb, carouse, telling lies; Nowak Neumann (from new), Trzeciak (of trzeci, third); Cierniak "(from ciern, Thorn (town in Poland), as used in connection with the birth, example Belzak, someone from Belz; Podolak, a person of Podolia; as used by the name originated from the name Walczak, Walka's son, Gierczak (Gertrude's son)
http://www.hubert-woelky.de/ahnen/name/suffix.htm

[Phaydra]

thank you so much for your reply. it has helped us a bit, but the name still remains a mystery. We found an article the other day stating that in the 1860-1890 period many hungarians changed their names, there are lists of the name changes but alas no karcolaks. we also learned that until the 1840's latin was the offical language of hungary. when translating karcolak to latin you get scalpere which is to cut. we are also wondering with the polish ending of -ak- this surname could be -son of karl-. we are still lost. it appears that the only two karcolaks that exist in the world are in canada. how is this possible? what are we missing?

apparently, (we just found this out) there is a karcolak who died in 1968 and is buried in hungary. anyone out there know any sites, or how to find this info on the internet? any help would be so appreciated!

sincerely, Phaydra

[carinthiangirl]

how did you get this info?
"we also learned that until the 1840's latin was the offical language of hungary. "
of sure NOT! was used in churchbooks for a time, but not official language. it was always hungarian, which belonges to an own language-group. and a name was never changed into latin!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_language#Modern_Hungarian
why should they have used latin? it´s another language-group and -> "Although it is considered a DEAD LANGUAGE, many students, scholars, and members of the Christian clergy speak it fluently, and it is still taught in some primary and secondary and many post-secondary educational institutions around the world."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin

do you have ancestors in Hungary? if - so which area. my guess for that name would be the hungarian area, which later became Slovakia. at czech and slovakian areas also ending - ak at some names like Nowak or so. maybe the name came about this before stated hungarian word and got the slavic ending in that area. or it came about Karolak (son of Karol/Carl) and was anywhere also misspelled later - before emigration......often strange, funny things happened with names about years and centuries. specially with such a rare, unusual name a big possibility that happened some in this way.

2 hits at the mormons-site: https://www.familysearch.org/search
Lepsény: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leps%C3%A9ny

[Phaydra]

apparently, yes, there are relatives in hungary still. this is my partners family. he has never met them. his dad was one of ten children, 6 of who were boys. his dads name was spelled karcolak when he was in the military (1950-54), and my partners older brother has a picture of a tombstone of one of the uncles that died in the 60's somewhere in hungary. we have no idea where this man could be buried. Lepsény is the birth place of his mother (june 16 1933) and the record you found was his mothers death record. her name was julia (bugyula) karcolak. the only church it seems that is there is the catholic church, but we do not know if she was in fact catholic. her fathers name was frank bugyula, and my partners fathers name was andrew karcolak. at this time we have no idea if he had any religious affiliation. his fathers birth place was arad which is now in romania. he was born march 22 1932. his mother and father both fled hungary during the 1956 revolution and they met on the ship over here which left from naples and landed in halifax in 1957. from there they settled in saskatoon where there was a fairly large hungarian settlement although we dont know which settlement they were in.

the karcolak name is spelled the same way on the military records, and so we are wondering if it was the previous generation that had a variation in the spelling of the surname. i have been doing genealogy for quite few years and i have never come across a name so difficult to find info on. any guidance is so welcomed at this point. thank you all so much! Phaydra

[carinthiangirl]

i´m not got for research in Hungary, but maybe ask "Skoumi" what to do there. he is from Hungary and knows a lot about researching there, as did many on his own family-tree:
http://www.skoumal.eu/EN/index.html
also ask this american with slovakian (former Hungary) roots - with similar lastname ;-) - who knows many about kuk Military of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire. where to find all about military and so on. maybe also a help for Hungary: http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ahm.html

hope this helps!

[Roy G]

Although there is a Polish eqivalent (KAROLAK) the nearest the Budapest Telephone directory has to offer is a KARKOSLAC, and there is only one of those.  Perhaps its best to try to trace the family as they arrived after crossing the Atlantic, for that would seem the most likely place for a name to get changed, possibly from something quite unpronouncable for western tongues.  Roy G.   Budapest.

[Roy G]

I have replied to you privately regarding a member of the Karcolak family that you wrote about as having died in Budapest in the 1960s.  These burial records are presently being transcribed by the Hungarian family history society, but the comparative recentness of that particular entry, makes the content possibly a matter still governed by laws of Internet privacy.  A recently placed transcript of the State records however, does seem to relate to the very family you seek.   

You have written:
........ my partner's father's name was andrew karcolak (from Arad).
The details I have sent give a family address, confirm that Andrew and his wife Ilona (nee Barabas) were the parents of the deceased who had been born in Arad in 1934 and died in Budapest's 18th district in 1968.  I deduce he must have been your relative's younger brother.  The deceased's wife was also named.

Knowing that your Karcolaks came from Arad, part of the former Austro Hungarian Empire that is now in Romania, you may now find Romanian restrictions on revealing family information provide you with a further stumbling block to overcome if you wish to trace the family line further back.

Regards    Roy G      in Budapest.