Hill Family of Hammersmith- Solve the Mystery

[Canadian Hills]

The Hill Family was living in Thame as of the 1871 census. The father, Robert Hill; born in 1826 ,was a Cattle Dealer and moved the family to the Hammersmith area sometime after 1871. By 1881, the family had virtually disappeared. My Great Grandfather, Sackville Hill born in 1866, was listed on the 1881 census as living at the Bisley Farm School in Surrey. This was part of the Shaftesbury Homes and unfortunately all their records were destroyed in a fire in the 1950's. My Great Grandfather ended up on a ship to Canada in 1882 or 1883. We have documented his life and family on this side of the pond successfully. We have also documented his fathers family (ie Robert Hill) in England going back several further generations.

The mystery has been what happened to the family that lead to my Great Grandfather becoming a Home Child. Through help with some of the folks at the British Genealogy site we have learned that Robert Hill died sometime between April 1875 & November 1878. We know this through a 1875 death certificate of his daughter and a 1878 marriage certificate of another daughter.  The 1875 death certificate of Catharine Elizabeth Hill states the family lived at 13 York Terrace in Hammersmith. The 1878 marriage of Harriette Mary Hill to Alfred Roger Connop in November 1878 states that father Robert was deceased. Although I can't quite make out the street address, I can see both Harriette and Alfred were living in Hammersmith in 1878.

Roberts wife was the former Esther Stevens born in 1831 in Haddenham.  I can not pinpoint what happened to her or exactly when Robert died. My guess is that Robert died and left Esther and her younger brood destitute and she had to give up the kids which lead to my Great Grandfather's situation. I have access to the Ancestry site and I can't find anything that jumps out for Robert or Esther . There is an 1872 death for an Esther Hill in Holbron however this is not the correct person.

Since we have narrowed it down to the Hammersmith district  in the mid 1870's, are there any local records available that may shed some more light on the family and help to solve this age old mystery? Being from Canada, I am at a disadvantage as to the geography of the area and possible leads to follow.

Any assistance, thoughts or ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you
Canadian Hills

[Jonquill]

Bucks Herald - Saturday 17 April 1875

DEATHS
HILL - At Hammersmith, London, on the 4th inst., Bessie, third daughter of Mr.Robert Hill (formerly of Thame), aged 16 years.

[Canadian Hills]

Thank You. I have this information already. "Bessie" was Catharine Elizabeth Hill who died 4 April, 1875

[Valda]

Hi

Welcome to Rootschat

From FreeBMD transcription of the civil registration index a possible death registration

Deaths Sept quarter 1876
Robert Hill aged 51
Kensington registration district
Volume 1a page 14

Nothing showing for Fulham registration district which covered Hammersmith after 1875 when Kensington civil registration district was split

http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/kensington.html

There is an Esther Hill marriage in Fulham registration district in 1879 but no evidence from following censuses that this would be Esther's remarriage.

March quarter 1879
Esther Hill
Possible spouses
William Thorp
Or
Charles William Weeks
Fulham registration district
Volume 1a
Page 353

However possible death registration

Death December quarter 1880
Esther Thorp aged 50
Fulham registration district
Volume 1a
Page 132

The parish church of St Paul Hammersmith is not deposited at the London Metropolitan Archives and therefore apart from some years of the Bishop Transcripts for the parish is not on Ancestry so not all marriages can be found on Ancestry. Burials in most central London churches had ceased by the middle 1850s with most burials switching to large civic cemeteries. Most London cemetery records (the majority managed by present day London boroughs) are not online including those for Hammersmith and Fulham. You need a death date to realistically request a search of a London borough's cemetery records.


Regards

Valda

[Canadian Hills]

Thank You for this information. I have the Death Certificate for the Robert Hill that you speak of who died in 1876. It shows he was a Drover...(which is related to the cattle industry). He died at the Paddington Workhouse and no next of kin are listed. This fits time wise (the 1875 to 1878 Window)  and occupation somewhat ( he was a Cattle Dealer) but there is no direct tie in to his wife or children.

The possible re-marriage in 1879 and death in 1880 of Esther could explain why my Great Grandfather was sent to the Bisley Farm School along with his brother William Arthur in 1881.

I guess the question is now, how do we prove these theories?

Should I pull a death and/ or marriage certificate for Esther Hill Thorp? How do we look further into the demise of "Robert Hill" in 1876? I have the exact death date (28 July,1876). How do I search these Borough records and what are the associated costs?

I really appreciate you looking into this. You have certainly given me a few new posiblities to consider.

Thank you

[Valda]

Hi

The marriage certificate will give the status of the Esther Hill who married - single or widowed as well as the name and occupation of her father. If she was a widow and her father's surname was Stevens it would confirm that this was the correct Esther. It might of course not be. There would be no point trying for the death certificate if the marriage was not the correct Esther.

Did the Robert Hill who died in 1876 die in Paddington workhouse infirmary. Workhouse infirmaries filled the gap when few hospitals (charitable) existed. When the National Health Service was established in 1948 the workhouse infirmaries were a major backbone and became along with the charitable hospitals the NHS hospitals. A death in the workhouse or the infirmary would be registered by a workhouse official.

It really depends whether Robert's family could afford to pay for his funeral where he was buried. It would be far less likely the family could have afforded a grave plot and so he would have been buried in a common grave. Families prided themselves on paying for the funeral so their loved ones did not have a pauper funeral. Otherwise the funeral would be a pauper funeral paid by the poor law union. Paddington was in a different poor law union from Hammersmith.

http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Paddington/
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Hammersmith/

London cemeteries vied for workhouse business so a burial might not be at the nearest cemetery but the one offering the cheapest deal to that poor law union at the time.

Ancestry holds London poor law records but they are unindexed and can be time consumming to trawl through. The records are ordered under modern London boroughs which in the case of Paddington is Westminster. Workhouse records have variable survival rates.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=1557

There is a guide to London burials at the top of the Rootschat London and Middlesex boards. Within the guide all London's civic cemeteries with the dates they were opened. Each is listed under the geographical headings of the modern London boroughs such as Hammersmith and Fulham. Links are given to any online records and to contact details. Costs may vary for a search. Specific searches with a date and a particular cemetery requested, if it could be done quickly (many of these records are not computerised and large Lndon cemeteries may have many burials each day) might not be charged but a wider far more time consuming search is more likely to be charged. Prices vary but can be expensive. The management of the cemetery or cemeteries would inform you of the charges. Burial registers (as opposed to plot ownership records) give date of burial, name, age and abode which might be the place of death and the name of whoever conducted the ceremony.


Regards

Valda

[Canadian Hills]

With regard to Robert Hill's death in 1876, it states he died at the Paddington Workhouse. It does not specifically state infirmary. It just says "J Chapman present at Death-Paddington Workhouse". Cause of death was  some type of congestion certified by R.E Gage(?) M.R.C.S.

I think this would suggest that he did die in the infirmary and  J Chapman & R.E Gage may have been staff there. You stated "A death in the workhouse or the infirmary would be registered by a workhouse official." Is there any way of following up on this other than trolling through the workhouse records you have suggested? I checked the 1881 Census from the link you attached and neither name was listed

I will order that marriage certificate for Esther and see where that takes us.

Thanks again for your research and general interest in solving this age old family mystery.

[Valda]

Hi

I don't think Paddington workhouse records such as the admission and discharge books survive from the period you are interested in. Worth checking what is on the Ancestry website.
R. E. Gage would be a doctor certifying the death - M. R. C. S. Membership of the Royal College of Surgeons


Regards

Valda

[Canadian Hills]

Valda.....Has anyone ever told you, that you are very good at this?

I ordered the Marriage Certificate for Esther Hill & William Thorp. Although she lied about her age; she was 48 or 49 at the time in 1879, and stated she was 46, everything else matches up. She is listed as a widow with her father listed as James Stevens (deceased by then). Stevens was her maiden name. The names that really seal the deal are the witnesses. They were her married daughter Emily Connop and her husband E. L. Connop (Edward Leonard)

I will now order the death certificate for Esther Thorpe from 1880 to confirm that this was in fact my Great Great Grandmother.

Now the only wild card that remains is confirming that the "Robert Hill" that died in the Paddington Workhouse is the "Robert Hill" that I'm after. I did e-mail "archives @westminster " before Christmas about the possible location of the Family plot, if one exists, but I have yet to hear back. It looks like there is nothing on line for that Workhouse for the period I am after. Hopefully i will get somewhere with the Cemetery search.

Thank you again