1911 Picture

[Rorydotcom]

Hello again,

I was hoping somebody can tell me something about this picture that could help me identify where it was taken.  The baby is my grandmother who was born in November of 1911.  I am told she was born in Scotland although the family was from Monaghan, Ireland where my grandmother grew up.  She is pictured here with her grandmother.  It looks like a baptism picture and my grandmother looks like she is at least 2 months old which would have been late for a baptism back then.  She was an illegitimate child and I can find no birth or baptism records in Ireland or Scotland.  Any help would be appreciated.

Thank you kindly,

Rory

[Ruskie]

Rory, this might sound a bit weird, but my first thought when I looked at the photo (before reading what you said about it), was that the lady looked Scottish. Now I know there is no such thing as looking Scottish, but this was just my first impression. 

So, to the facts ...
I take it you are trying to find your grandmother's birth? What is her name?
Who is her mother?
What is the name of the grandmother in the photo? Was her husband still alive at the time this photo was taken? Or might she be wearing widow's weeds? I am wondering if the scarf tied at the neck means something? (if she is widowed)

I'm sure others will have other suggestions, but this looks like a studio portrait. Is there anything printed or written on the back? Any embossed words on the front? There were often clues in the photos, but the only thing I can see is the open window, and I'm not sure that that would have a particular meaning as it is a photographer's backdrop.

If your grandmother was illegitimate and this photo shows her with her grandmother there could have been any number of reasons that it was taken:
- perhaps a special event (her grandmother's birthday for example)
- the baby may have been adopted hence the last chance for a family photo (there may have been a name change which may explain why you cannot locate the birth?)
- the baby may have gone to live with the grandmother or
- they just wanted a nice family photo 
Although illegitimate, she was obviously accepted by the family.

Not very helpful, but I'm not sure that you will be able to deduce much from the photo to help you in your quest.

[Rorydotcom]

Hey, thanks for the reply.  All great questions.  Yes I am trying to find her birth location as well as the situation around her and her siblings birth.  I am still trying to locate the original photo, all I have is a copy of a copy.  To answer your questions:

My grandmother was Mary Ann Cassidy and her mother was Bridget Cassidy.  The story is Bridget was sent to Scotland to have the baby, she had a few with an unnamed father.  I have the birth record for a son Patrick born in 1909 in Scotland and two more born in Monaghan after my grandmother.  She is the only one I can't find. 

Bridget's mother was Mary McCoy pictured here (Yes, McCoy is a Scottish name but I am pretty sure she was born in Monaghan)   I believe her husband was deceased at this time but I am not positive.  His name is on the 1911 census but it's crossed out.  Her sons emigrated to Scotland, that's who Bridget stayed with in 1909 per the address on the birth certificate. 

I wasn't hoping for much from the photo but find it best to put it out there, if anything people have given me good direction that leads to something. 

I appreciate you taking the time to respond.

Rory

[Ruskie]

Interesting circumstances and story. As you probably know, there was lots of movement of people between Scotland/Ireland. So although I think Mary McCoy looks Scottish, of course she may not be. 

I think that it would be a very worthwhile if you could locate the original photo, or at least if you contact the owner of the photo, and ask them if there is a Studio name on either the front or back of the photo. I am no expert, but I believe most (if not all) would have been marked.

Are you saying that Bridget gave her brother's address on a child's birth certificate in 1909? Do you know if she was at the same address for the births of the other children? Do you know (or suspect) that Bridget's babies all had the same father? Did Bridget stay in Scotland after the births or return to Ireland? Did she keep the babies? Have you checked for any records such as bastardy bonds, or requests for financial assistance (or the Scottish equivalent if such a thing existed at this time)? Was the father named in any marriage or death records of any of Bridget's children?

Sorry for all the questions, and I'm sure you have already been down this path, but answers may help to pinpoint her movements.

One more thing - have you asked for help with this family previously on rootschat? I am just thinking that although you have specifically requested information about the photograph, that the request might be better on the Scotland board (where there are some wonderful helpers).  You can ask a moderator to move it for you.

[cazza59]

Rory, this might sound a bit weird, but my first thought when I looked at the photo (before reading what you said about it), was that the lady looked Scottish. Now I know there is no such thing as looking Scottish, but this was just my first impression. 

Not so weird.  As soon as I saw the photo, my very first instinct was also "Scottish".   Can't explain it, just a feeling I got the same as Ruskie. 

[Greensleeves]

Quite bizarre but I did exactly the same thing, without reading what Rory had written - I had an immediate impression of Scotland.  Very strange.

[Ruskie]

I'm glad I am not alone with my Scottish theory! 

What do you all make of the scarf? I think it looks a bit odd - white with tassles and tied in a bow? 

[cazza59]

It is a bit odd, the scarf that is.  I'd like to hear what Jim or China make of it.

Shame there isn't any photographers name.

Caroline

[Ruskie]

The scarf looks quite heavy (knitted?) to be tied in a bow doesn't it?

I am hoping that Rory can contact the person who has the photo in their possession, to ask if there is a studio/photographer's name on the back, or embossed at the bottom of the photo, as sometimes happens.