June 2005 RootsChat Challenge

[Denise Thompson]

Molison-Dunbar-Tatham-Shores
Hello Jap,
Thank you for the additional information. I didn't continue my Victorian search, assuming incorrectly that Duncan, Mary Ann and Justina Tatham returned to the UK.
Elizabeth Tatham, nee Gordon, was a daughter of Robert Gordon, a cooper at Orchard House, and Mary Kemp. My ancestor Mary Korff, nee Gordon was another daughter of Robert and Mary.
Robert Gordon was born in Elgin, Moray, Scotland in 1762, and came to London as a young man. I have been trying to determine whether the relationship between the Korff/Gordon family and Duncan Dunbar was a familial one or simply a business association. Perhaps the families knew each other in Morayshire, or perhaps it is simply that Mary's sister Elizabeth married Christopher Tatham, husband of Duncan's sister Justina. Certainly the extended family in Sydney travelled between England and Australia using Duncan Dunbar ships almost exclusively.
John Korff was a boat builder and marine architect, and Coff's Harbour is named after him. Because of his "fame" his family has been extensively researched, but the Gordon family has been neglected...until now!
Cheers,
Denise

[Paul E]

Er...

I understand that Ancestry now have the index for the 1920 US census online.

Just wondering if someone with access to that can check to see if Allan and or / Claude are over there by any chance!

cheers

Paul

[alcrighton]

What do you all make of this?

Marriages, December Quarter 1920

ROBERTSON, Claude S, Fulham 1a 596
BURROUGHS, Doris F M, Fulham 1a 596

By my calculations, "our" Claude would have been 52 or 53 years old in 1920.  Second marriage or more likely a son or nephew?

Al

[Keziahemm]

Al, don't get Paul's hopes up 

Claude S Robertson 7 born Clapham son of George S Robertson, widower, Warehouseman born  Liverpool.

1901 census RG13/210  Folio 159  page 22

.........

I did see a poster in France advertising a musical evening and one of the performers was a Claude Robere 

Susan 

[Holly Golightly]

Not much to add but I believe you will find CHIL is the abbrievation for CHIL Chilwell, VIC.

The abbreviation for Chiltern is CHILE.

Hope this helps,
Holly

[Denise Thompson]

Thank you for your additional information Holly. I have made a note of Chilwell.
Regards from Denise

[JAP]

Hi Holly,

Very interested re your comment about abbreviations for Victorian registration districts.

I would really like to learn more about these!  The abbreviations in the indexes have always been a puzzle and an annoyance to me.

Do you have a definitive source for place name abbreviations in the Victorian BDM indexes?

I've never found place abbreviations to be consistent but would be very pleased to find that they were!  In the Pioneer Index, there are only six entries with place as CHILE, 2722 with place as CHIL, 935 with place as CHILWELL (which is near Geelong), and 1057 with place as CHILTERN.  Who knows!

Looking forward to hearing from you with more info about abbreviations of registration districts.

Cheers,

JAP

[Holly Golightly]

Hi JAP,

I dont think there is such thing as a definitive source for the abbrievations but I have found in my search the following site has been very useful: http://members.westnet.com.au/web/talltrees/resources/vic_abbr.htm

But I always check other sites to see if they agree and in this case they did:
http://www.zades.com.au/geelong/gdusef.htm#BDM
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~ifhaa/ifhaa/misc/vicnames.htm

However Its possible that CHIL could stand for both districts.

Holly

[JAP]

Hello again Holly and Denise,

CHIL was definitely an abbreviation which was used for Chiltern.  I can't comment on other usages of CHIL but I have checked out a death in Victoria, Australia which is known (from the certificate) to have occurred at Chiltern - and the death place is abbreviated in the index to CHIL.  Abbreviations in the Victorian indexes are a real 'pain in the neck' for researchers.

Holly, I've now looked at the sites you quoted.  The Geelong site could be useful for the specific Geelong area but I would suggest that it would be prudent NOT to place reliance on the other two or any similar sites - except perhaps as a source of ideas for what an abbreviation might stand for.

The two sites include many spelling errors, they quote abbreviations which don't seem to exist, and they suggest only one place for an abbreviation although that abbreviation is commonly (possibly more commonly) used for one or more other places.  Worst of all, some of the listings (like CHILE for Chiltern) are positively misleading to readers - as you now know.  I suspect that, in the minuscule number of records where CHILE appears, it actually means Chile (the country in South America).  There are no deaths in 'CHILE' in the 1921-1985 Death Index.   In the Edwardian Index there are no births or deaths in CHILE; there is one marriage where the groom's birthplace is listed as CHILE.  In the Pioneer Index there are no births or deaths in CHILE; there are 6 deaths where the person's birthplace is listed as CHILE (back in the time when birthplace rather than deathplace was listed in the index).

I guess this serves as an important reminder to all of us genealogists not to rely on secondary sources   Unfortunately, there is no primary source for abbreviations in the Victorian indexes  - the only way to find out for sure what the abbreviation stood for in any particular instance is to buy the certificate   Though sometimes one can be fairly confident if there are other events for the same people round the same time where the full place name appears in the index.

Cheers,

JAP