June 2005 RootsChat Challenge

[Paul E]

Good work on the Yorkshire Dales, Tommy (pun intended!)

[Paul E]

Following in Tommy's footsteps for the Dales...

The 1823 Baine's Directory for Whitby (courtesy of the Genuki Whitby pages), lists:

Thomas Gallilee Dale, Bridge Street, Grocer & Tea Dealer

Ann Dale, Flowergate, Boot & Shoemaker

John Dale, St Anne's staith, Plumber & Glazier

Edward Dale, Skinner Street, Ship Owner

Dale & Backhouse, Church Street, Wharfingers (def: Manager or owner of a wharf)

Thomas Gallilee Dale, chief constable for the wapentake of Whitby Strand, inspector of corn returns & assize of bread, Bridge street

Water Carriage: From Dale and Backhouse's wharf,
Vessels to London every week, during the Summer and once a fortnight during the Winter

Plus, for Muirs:

Ann Muir, Flowergate, Confectioner

The 1861 census has, born Whitby:

John Dale, M, 69, Masonic Annuitant, with wife Margaret, 72 and unmarried daughter Isabella, 43, Milliner and Dressmaker.

[Paul E]

From the 1829 Pigot's Directory for Whitby:

Dale Thomas Gallilee, chief constable and corn inspector, Bridge street

Dale Thomas Gallilee, Bridge street, Tallow Chandler

Dale Jane, Silver street, Shopkeeper & Dealer

Dale John, St. Ann's staith, Plumbers & Glaziers

Dale William, Bridge street, Linen & Woollen Drapers

Dale Thomas Gallilee, Bridge street, Grocer & Tea Merchant

Dale John, St. Ann's staith, Carvers & Gilders

Dale Ann, Flower gate, Boot & Shoemakers

[MaryA]

Robertsons:
please can someone who's been following Robert Malcolm Robertson, wife Jessie and son Charles explain what connection they think they have to our family?  

Sorry Rambler, we were trying to tie down Jessies, my answers proved that this one was married to Robert Malcolm and so did NOT belong to us, rather than proving that she did.

Mary

[Manchester Rambler]

 

Sorry Rambler, we were trying to tie down Jessies, my answers proved that this one was married to Robert Malcolm and so did NOT belong to us, rather than proving that she did.

Mary

OK - Glad to hear it!  Another red herring eliminated.

Rambler

[JAP]

Robertsons:

<snip>

Charles M Robertson (sailmaker) and family - seem to want to confuse us deliberately!  I'm practically certain that the 1871 census entry is for "our" Charles Macrae Robertson, but don't know how to explain the discrepancies with 1861/1881.  I'm going to let them simmer for a while, and hopefully come back to them with a fresh mind.

<snip>

Rambler

Rambler, I've been puzzling over them too - but to no avail.

I have lots of questions/thoughts - remembering again that ROBERTSON and JOHNS(T)ON(E) are pretty common names - but I'll just mention a few in case someone can add some information.

1.  The only fairly definite connexion we seem to have between "our" Charles Mackae ROBERTSON and an Alice JOHNSON is:
- A Charles Macral ROBERTSON married an Alice JOHNSON, 1863 Mar qtr St Luke.
- (Not certain as no middle name for Charles) an Ellen Emily ROBERTSON, parents Charles ROBERTSON and Alice was bap 15 May 1864 St Thomas, Stepney (extracted IGI record).
-  Hugh Moody ROBERTSON, parents Charles McCrae ROBERTSON and Alice was b 29 Mar, bap 27 Jun 1869 St Dunstans, Stepney (extracted IGI record) - surely must be "our" family.

Questions
Where is Hugh Moody ROBERTSON (b 1869) in 1871 and 1881?
Has anyone found a death record for him, or found a possible Hugh ROBERTSON in the 1871 census?
Is there any other family in the 1871 census (apart from the family we already have) that could be the Charles and Alice who married in 1863, and had Hugh Moody in 1869 and perhaps Ellen Emily in 1864?
We have a possible death record for Charles Macrae between 1871 and 1881 but what about Alice ROBERTSON?

2. We have an 1871 census record with ages apparently all over the place.

Questions
One could understand Charles getting his wife's age wrong (though, if she's the Alice who was 23 in 1861, she should be only 33 rather than 47 in 1871).   And one could understand Charles getting his children's (or step-children's) ages wrong.  But getting his own age so very wrong?  We have him as 47 in the 1871 census but, if he is "our" Charles Mackae ROBERTSON born in 1833, he should be only ca 37.
Has anyone seen the actual image?  Might the ages have been wrongly transcribed?
Has anyone found Statutory Register birth entries for Helen (or for an Ellen Emily), Agnes M, and Lilias?

3. 1881 census

Question
Are the people we've picked as Alice jnr, Helen, Agnes and Lilias really the same as the people in the 1871?

4. The JOHNSON children - the only reference (I think) that we have to a father called Charles JOHNSON is the IGI entry for Jessie Robertson JOHNSON.

Questions
Might this be some sort of mix-up or transcription error?  Has anyone found a possible Statutory Register marriage entry for a Charles JOHNSON and an Alice (pre the birth of Charles Robertson JOHNSON in 1858)?

Apologies in advance if I've missed posts which answer my questions/thoughts.

And thanks if anyone can answer any of the questions/thoughts!

JAP 
 

[CatOne]

Questions
One could understand Charles getting his wife's age wrong (though, if she's the Alice who was 23 in 1861, she should be only 33 rather than 47 in 1871). And one could understand Charles getting his children's (or step-children's) ages wrong. But getting his own age so very wrong? We have him as 47 in the 1871 census but, if he is "our" Charles Mackae ROBERTSON born in 1833, he should be only ca 37.
Has anyone seen the actual image?
 

Hi, Had a look again at the image and the first number is definately four but the second number is harder to read because its got a line through it, could be a 1,4 or 7........


Is this family one of ours? (sorry if its been posted before, losing track, its not on the summary)

1881 Knapp? Road, St Leonard, Bromley RG11/0498 Folio 24 Page 41
William Muir  47 (or 9) Sailmaker Bristol, Gloucester
Ann E 47 Bristol, Gloucester
Agness 22 Limehouse Middlesex
James 20 Sailmaker Limehouse Middlesex
Annie 18 Limehouse Middlesex
Tom E 12 Limehouse Middlesex
Amy C 11 Bromley
Jessie M 6 Bromley

[Boongie Pam]

<snip>
I have lots of questions/thoughts - remembering again that ROBERTSON and JOHNS(T)ON(E) are pretty common names - but I'll just mention a few in case someone can add some information.

1.  The only fairly definite connexion we seem to have between "our" Charles Mackae ROBERTSON and an Alice JOHNSON is:
- A Charles Macral ROBERTSON married an Alice JOHNSON, 1863 Mar qtr St Luke.
- (Not certain as no middle name for Charles) an Ellen Emily ROBERTSON, parents Charles ROBERTSON and Alice was bap 15 May 1864 St Thomas, Stepney (extracted IGI record).
-  Hugh Moody ROBERTSON, parents Charles McCrae ROBERTSON and Alice was b 29 Mar, bap 27 Jun 1869 St Dunstans, Stepney (extracted IGI record) - surely must be "our" family.

Questions
Where is Hugh Moody ROBERTSON (b 1869) in 1871 and 1881?
Has anyone found a death record for him, or found a possible Hugh ROBERTSON in the 1871 census?
Is there any other family in the 1871 census (apart from the family we already have) that could be the Charles and Alice who married in 1863, and had Hugh Moody in 1869 and perhaps Ellen Emily in 1864?
We have a possible death record for Charles Macrae between 1871 and 1881 but what about Alice ROBERTSON?

Here's the 1871 entry that fits the closest.  I will caveat all my posts with a sorry if posted before I haven't been clever enough to create a word doc.

RG10/3847 Ed 49 P 6

1871 West Derby

78 White Rock St

Charles M Robertson  Head  41  Sailmaker  London, Middlesex
Alice Robertson  Wife  47  Liverpool, Lancashire
Charles M Robertson  Son  18  Liverpool, Lancashire
Jessie Robertson   Daughter   17  Liverpool, Lancashire
Alice M Robertson   Daughter   14  Stepney, London
Helen E Robertson   Daughter   10  Stepney, London
Agnes M Robertson   Daughter   8   Hertfordshire
Lilias Robertson   Daughter   5  Stratford, Middlesex

No Hugh present.

Cheers,
Pam
 

PS Sorry I'm bleary eyed - I just got what you meant and you already have this family.  Doh!

Ok ok I totally lost the plot on this post.  Trying to reclaim some dignity I can say that the ages are quite clear except for Charles (the head & father).

I'm a wee bit confused still over Charles Moody Robertson son of George and whether this is where we are confusing the families?

Also, this Alice was born in Liverpool by virtue of the 1871 census yet the Alice mentioned as marrying Charles Macrae Robertson is thought to be baptised in Stepney.  Obviously this is possible but is it likely?

P

[CatOne]

Marriage of a Lilias Robertson to a George Herbert Preston Dec 1895 Vol. 8b Page 390 Toxteth Park, and on the 1901 census shes on her own with son Ronald 5months and 2 servants, Crosby, Waterloo, Lancs (married, not widowed, so husband away) RG13/3444 Folio154 Page44. Her age puts her year of birth at 1869..........

Have you noticed a Lilias Robertson, "foster daughter/housekeeper" aged 33 on the 1891 census, living in Stepney, London, with another "foster daughter" Beatrice Amy Hart aged 11, and James Orson Hansford widower aged 61 Hammer-Man Engineer E&M
RG12/294 Folio 58 Page 10

Lilias uncommon name and cant find any others on Ancestry.....