June 2005 RootsChat Challenge

[bearkat]

This is Hugh Wallis' site for IGI batch numbers and middle names index:

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hughwallis/index.htm

bearkat

[liverpool annie]

Roxburghshire Parish and Probate Records Roxburgh Scotland

24 Mar 1793 Alexander Muir and Janet Aymers in Melrose,
a.s.n.
William, baptised 24 Mar 1793 ; w. John Muir, R. Paterson.

[JAP]

JoT and JAP - congratulations on some excellent research!  What else can I say?  Your marvellous follow-up on Mary Robertson's visitors in the 1861 census ties in beautifully with our other info, and confirms Archibald Robertson and Janet Moody as George Sr's parents, even if we don't have a birth record for George.  Along with all Archibald Jr's family!
I'm really impressd! 
Rambler

Rambler, while (like you) I'm confident of the above, I really won't be entirely happy until we find a census entry (1851, 1861, 1871, 1881) which confirms that the Archibald ROBERTSON who married Christian Leckie EWING in 1849 (entries in Kippen and Barony)  was the right age and was born in the Limehouse/Stepney/Wapping area.

I'm not really worried about the lack of a birth/christening record for George senior.  The Scottish records in the IGI are mainly for the Established (Presbyterian) Church of Scotland.  There were umpteen schisms, secessions and re-formings of the Presbyterian Church so it is common to be unable to find records if the people concerned were not members of the Established Church - even though they may well have been members of the Church of Scotland.

There is a good diagram showing this at:
http://website.lineone.net/~davghalgh/churchhistory.html

Feelings ran high!  Here is an extract from:
http://www.electricscotland.com/history/scottish_life8.htm
' A worthy old Seceder used to ride from Gargunnock to Buchlyvie every Sabbath to attend the Burgher kirk. One day as he rode past the parish kirk of Kippen, the elder at the plate accosted him, "I’m sure, John, it’s no’ like the thing to see you ridin’ in sic a doonpour o’ rain sac far by to thae Seceders. Ye ken the mercifu’ man is mercifu’ to his beast. Could ye no’ step in by?" "Weel," said John, "I wadna care sae muckle about stablin’ my beast inside, but it’s anither thing mysel’ gain’ in." '

JAP

[Manchester Rambler]

A likely entry for Alice Johnson's birth from Free BMD:

Dec qtr 1859 - JOHNSON  Alice Mary    Stepney  1c 514

Also a rather dubious possibility for Lilias Robertson:

Mar qtr 1868 - ROBERTSON  Lilies     Mile End  1c 614

Rambler

[liverpool annie]

Son of Reginald Luckock Muir

World War I Draft Registration Cards, 1917-1918

Name -  James Jennings Muir
Age -  23
Home address -  Logan Utah
Birthplace - Cardiff Wales - American subject
Birth Date -  3 Jun 1894
Present trade -  Ranch hand
Employer -  Chas O' Bannon
Address -  Cokeville
County -  Lincoln
State -  Wyoming
Dependents -  Mother
note - missing one finger
Dated -  June 5th 1917
Tall -  Medium build -  blue eyes -  fair hair
Roll 2022241

[Manchester Rambler]

JoT and JAP - congratulations on some excellent research!  What else can I say?  Your marvellous follow-up on Mary Robertson's visitors in the 1861 census ties in beautifully with our other info, and confirms Archibald Robertson and Janet Moody as George Sr's parents, even if we don't have a birth record for George.  Along with all Archibald Jr's family!
I'm really impressd! 
Rambler

Rambler, while (like you) I'm confident of the above, I really won't be entirely happy until we find a census entry (1851, 1861, 1871, 1881) which confirms that the Archibald ROBERTSON who married Christian Leckie EWING in 1849 (entries in Kippen and Barony)  was the right age and was born in the Limehouse/Stepney/Wapping area.JAP

I quite agree that it's best to err on the side of caution, but shall we say we now have a good working hypothesis?  Certainly with the work you've done, no one can accuse you of jumping to conclusions!

I'm not really worried about the lack of a birth/christening record for George senior. The Scottish records in the IGI are mainly for the Established (Presbyterian) Church of Scotland. There were umpteen schisms, secessions and re-formings of the Presbyterian Church so it is common to be unable to find records if the people concerned were not members of the Established Church - even though they may well have been members of the Church of Scotland.

Don't tell me about non-conformists!  Ggrandfather was a (supposedly) excommunicated Catholic turned vaguely Anglican, while half the rest of my ancestors were Methodists, including a bunch from the Countess of Huntingdon's Connection.... Records?  What records??  

But that's beside the point....  Let's hope someone out there has access to the census records we need for that final confirmation.  

By the way, not having any Scottish ancestry myself, I was suprised to find that Archibald was a relatively common name there - I'd never connected it with Scotland before.

Rambler

[liverpool annie]

1861

John F Muir  age 16 b. 1845
Archibald M Muir age 14 b. 1847

both born East Indies
both pupils
Rugby School
Warickshire

Picked out the two boys - long listing on census

Annie

[emilysiobhan]

Do we have the details of George and Mary Robertson from 1851 yet?

Oracle has found a George and Mary at 1Providence place:

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=63406.new#new

which fits with the address from the PO directory.

If we have them already in 1851 can someone add a post there that we don't need them anymore...I"ve completely lost track with this all at the moment.

Emily

[emilysiobhan]

Oracle has found them in 1841 now I think.....and there is a Colin in the family (or at least living in the same place, I guess 1841 doesn't actually give relationships)

Apparently in 1841 living with a George and Mary Robertson at 1 Providence place are:
George 21 Collin17 hugh12  Agnes10 Charles 8 john6 Mary3 Janet1

I think this fits in with the births found in the IGI?

Apologies if we have this already ten pages ago, but I've not had time to read everything today.

Emily