Author Topic: June 2005 RootsChat Challenge  (Read 196625 times)

Offline Burrow Digger

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Re: June 2005 RootsChat Challenge
« Reply #153 on: Thursday 02 June 05 16:58 BST (UK) »
Rambler you said that James Muir was born in 1827.

Thats does not match the 1881 census record in which he stated he was aged 46. So 81 - 46 = (18)35.

1881 census

James MUIR Head M Male 46 Bristol, Gloucester, England Sailmaker
Sarah MUIR Wife M Female 45 Bristol, Gloucester, England
Jessy MUIR Daur Female 19 Limehouse, Middlesex, England
Eliza MUIR Daur Female 17 Limehouse, Middlesex, England
Edward MUIR Son Male 15 Limehouse, Middlesex, England
Charlotte MUIR Daur Female 13 Poplar, Middlesex, England
Charles MUIR Son Male 11 Bromley, Middlesex, England
Emily MUIR Daur Female 9 Bromley, Middlesex, England
Louisa MUIR Daur Female 6 Bromley, Middlesex, England
Agnes MUIR Daur Female 2 Bromley, Middlesex, England

Or have I missed something and we are now saying that this census record is not correct.

I realise that census ages are not always accurate but wouldnt you expect a person to know if they were 46 or 54 years old?

BD
BURROW, BICKHAM, EVANS, SULLEY, STONE - Devon
STEPHENS, MALLET, ADAMS - Cornwall
HANCOCK , BUSSON - Somerset
MCCALLUM, MCDIARMID, MCNEILL - Argyle, Scotland
WALLS, SUTHERLAND, SIMPSON - Orkney, Scotland
FAIRBAIRN - Fife, Scotland
THOMPSON - Aberdeen, Scotland

Offline Burrow Digger

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Re: June 2005 RootsChat Challenge
« Reply #154 on: Thursday 02 June 05 17:04 BST (UK) »
And while I still want the proof, I found the marriage record at IGI.

THOMAS MUIR 
  Male   
Marriages:
  Spouse:  MARY DALE  Family
  Marriage:  07 FEB 1825   Liverpool, Lancashire, England
 
 
User-submitted record (not a parish record extract)

BD
BURROW, BICKHAM, EVANS, SULLEY, STONE - Devon
STEPHENS, MALLET, ADAMS - Cornwall
HANCOCK , BUSSON - Somerset
MCCALLUM, MCDIARMID, MCNEILL - Argyle, Scotland
WALLS, SUTHERLAND, SIMPSON - Orkney, Scotland
FAIRBAIRN - Fife, Scotland
THOMPSON - Aberdeen, Scotland

Offline Manchester Rambler

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Re: June 2005 RootsChat Challenge
« Reply #155 on: Thursday 02 June 05 17:07 BST (UK) »
Captain James Muir's wife Charlotte obviously travelled with him - just look where their children were born!  (IGI data)
 
JAMES ERNEST WILKINSON MUIR - International Genealogical Index / AS
Gender: Male Christening: 03 JAN 1866 Taninthari, Mawlamyaing, Tenasserim, Burma
 
REGINALD LUCKOCK MUIR - International Genealogical Index / AS
Gender: Male Birth: 10 MAY 1870 Ship Golden Eagle, Bombay, Maharashtra, India
 
Ethel Millicent Muir - International Genealogical Index / AS
Gender: Female Christening: 23 OCT 1891 Kamptee, , West Bengal, India

THOMAS KING MUIR - International Genealogical Index / OI
Gender: Male Birth: 24 JAN 1863 , Falkland Islands, Atlantic Islands

GERTRUDE EMMELINE MUIR - International Genealogical Index / BI
Gender: Female Birth: 01 JUL 1872 Liverpool, Lancashire, England
 
Rambler
 
BD -Here's the full record - It's a user-submitted one which covers 3 generations.  I found it by entering Charlotte Muir with birth "At Sea" in "All Resources".

Husband
 Capt James Muir Pedigree
  
  Birth:  30 OCT 1827  Whitby, Yorkshire, England
Christening:    
Marriage:  13 JUN 1860  , London, England
Death:  11 JUN 1899  Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Burial:    Toxteth Park Cemetery, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
    
 Father:   Capt Thomas Muir Family
Mother:   Mary Dale  
 
~~~~~~~~
 
Wife
 Charlotte Maria Ann Jenkins Wilkinson King Pedigree
 
   Birth:  16 OCT 1833  , Barbados, Caribbean
Christening:  03 NOV 1833  , Barbados, Caribbean
Marriage:  13 JUN 1860  , London, England
Death:  05 NOV 1879  Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Burial:    Toxteth Park Cemetery, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
  
 Father:   James King Family
Mother:      
 ~~~~~~~~
 Children
~~~~~~~~
 
1.   Mary Barron Muir    Female  
    
   Birth:  03 SEP 1861  London, London, England
Christening:    
Death:  16 JAN 1914  
Burial:    
  
~~~~~~~~
 
2.   Thomas King Muir    Male  
    
   Birth:  24 JAN 1863  Ship "Falkland", , , At Sea
Christening:    
Death:  29 FEB 1932  
Burial:    
  
 ~~~~~~~~
  3.   Unavailable  
~~~~~~~~
 
4.   Charlotte Georgina Dale Muir
   Female  
    
   Birth:  29 DEC 1867  At Sea Ship "Golden Eagle", , , At Sea
Christening:    
Death:  30 AUG 1913  
Burial:    
 
 ~~~~~~~~
   5.   Unavailable
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  6.   Unavailable
 
User-submitted records vary in reliability, but this looks a good line to follow - it explains nicely why Allan's wife Charlotte has Dale as a third name.

Earlier today (CET!) I found another 1881 census record which I posted a couple of pages back, and this shows a Charlotte G Muir born at sea with the above siblings.  So I think the other 1881 Charlotte Muir may not be the right one. However, naming patterns and occupations are very similar, so in my opinion the familes are very likely to be related...  Or I may be wrong entirely!  Whatdo you think?
ANT: Nesbit, Potts; CHS: Gosling (Hazel Grove/Lymm), Hinton (Lymm), Johnson (Hazel Grove), Marsland (Hazel Grove), Massey (Daresbury), Sorton (Warmingham); LAN: Jackson, James, Potts (Manchester/Salford); MAY: Caulfield, Griffin (Leveelick); SAL: Goodwin, Johnson (Bridgnorth), Gregory (Wellington); STS: Goodwin, Gregory, Johnson (Wolverhampton); Hallett (Trysull); SOM: Dowding, James, Jones (Bath)

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Paul E

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Re: June 2005 RootsChat Challenge
« Reply #156 on: Thursday 02 June 05 17:11 BST (UK) »
Hi MR

Yes, I just had a look at the user submitted record - I think it stacks up.
Great find!

Paul


Paul E

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Re: June 2005 RootsChat Challenge
« Reply #157 on: Thursday 02 June 05 17:17 BST (UK) »
Hi

The LDS site also has an Ancestral File for Charlotte Muir, showing her maternal grandparents as

James KING born 1807  St Michaels, Barbados
Mary Elizabeth WILKINSON born 1811 St Michaels, Barbados

cheers

Paul

Offline alcrighton

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Re: June 2005 RootsChat Challenge
« Reply #158 on: Thursday 02 June 05 17:21 BST (UK) »
Quote
Posted by: Burrow Digger  Posted on: Today at 16:58:03  
Insert Quote  
Rambler you said that James Muir was born in 1827.

Thats does not match the 1881 census record in which he stated he was aged 46. So 81 - 46 = (18)35.

1881 census

James MUIR Head M Male 46 Bristol, Gloucester, England Sailmaker
Sarah MUIR Wife M Female 45 Bristol, Gloucester, England
Jessy MUIR Daur Female 19 Limehouse, Middlesex, England
Eliza MUIR Daur Female 17 Limehouse, Middlesex, England
Edward MUIR Son Male 15 Limehouse, Middlesex, England
Charlotte MUIR Daur Female 13 Poplar, Middlesex, England
Charles MUIR Son Male 11 Bromley, Middlesex, England
Emily MUIR Daur Female 9 Bromley, Middlesex, England
Louisa MUIR Daur Female 6 Bromley, Middlesex, England
Agnes MUIR Daur Female 2 Bromley, Middlesex, England
 

I don't think this 1881 record is for the Charlotte & James we're looking for.  MR has already listed the children for James Muir & Charlotte M A J King from the IGI.

However there are also three other children on the IGI of a James Muir and Charlotte (no surname) born in Liverpool:

Robert b 1868
Marian b 1870
Jessie b 1872

I think this is another family but may be related.

Allan
 
Crighton, Dundee & London<br />Woodgates, Bath, Devon & London<br />Curtis, Nottinghamshire & Islington<br />Maker, Cornwall & London<br /><br />Census information is Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Burrow Digger

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Re: June 2005 RootsChat Challenge
« Reply #159 on: Thursday 02 June 05 17:30 BST (UK) »
Ok so the 1881 census record I originally posted way back on page 1 or 2 is incorrect - thats cool. Thanks for the proof. :)

Now its that time again - work :( 
But I'll be back in 6 hours!!!  :)
I like Thursdays - my halfday off  :)

BD

PS I wished I grew up living that life style - born at sea, sailing the world, being truely free .... if only...

And that boat must get rather crowded with so many kids  :)
BURROW, BICKHAM, EVANS, SULLEY, STONE - Devon
STEPHENS, MALLET, ADAMS - Cornwall
HANCOCK , BUSSON - Somerset
MCCALLUM, MCDIARMID, MCNEILL - Argyle, Scotland
WALLS, SUTHERLAND, SIMPSON - Orkney, Scotland
FAIRBAIRN - Fife, Scotland
THOMPSON - Aberdeen, Scotland

Offline Manchester Rambler

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Re: June 2005 RootsChat Challenge
« Reply #160 on: Thursday 02 June 05 17:39 BST (UK) »
This may be the marriage for the "other" James Muir and Sarah from Free BMD:

Marriages Dec 1859
--------------------------
Edwards  William    Bristol  6a 9   
MUIR  James     Bristol  6a 9   
Shambrook  Harriett     Bristol  6a 9   
Sprowles  Sarah      Bristol  6a 9

I think they're connected in some way, but don't know how. 

Hey BD - half-days aren't fair!  You get ahead of us Europeans during our night as it is!  I couldn't believe how much I had to catch up yesterday and this morning.  :D

Rambler
ANT: Nesbit, Potts; CHS: Gosling (Hazel Grove/Lymm), Hinton (Lymm), Johnson (Hazel Grove), Marsland (Hazel Grove), Massey (Daresbury), Sorton (Warmingham); LAN: Jackson, James, Potts (Manchester/Salford); MAY: Caulfield, Griffin (Leveelick); SAL: Goodwin, Johnson (Bridgnorth), Gregory (Wellington); STS: Goodwin, Gregory, Johnson (Wolverhampton); Hallett (Trysull); SOM: Dowding, James, Jones (Bath)

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Burrow Digger

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Re: June 2005 RootsChat Challenge
« Reply #161 on: Thursday 02 June 05 17:41 BST (UK) »
Captain James Muir's wife Charlotte obviously travelled with him - just look where their children were born!  (IGI data)
 
JAMES ERNEST WILKINSON MUIR - International Genealogical Index / AS
Gender: Male Christening: 03 JAN 1866 Taninthari, Mawlamyaing, Tenasserim, Burma
 
REGINALD LUCKOCK MUIR - International Genealogical Index / AS
Gender: Male Birth: 10 MAY 1870 Ship Golden Eagle, Bombay, Maharashtra, India
 
Ethel Millicent Muir - International Genealogical Index / AS
Gender: Female Christening: 23 OCT 1891 Kamptee, , West Bengal, India

THOMAS KING MUIR - International Genealogical Index / OI
Gender: Male Birth: 24 JAN 1863 , Falkland Islands, Atlantic Islands

GERTRUDE EMMELINE MUIR - International Genealogical Index / BI
Gender: Female Birth: 01 JUL 1872 Liverpool, Lancashire, England
 
Rambler
 
BD -Here's the full record - It's a user-submitted one which covers 3 generations.  I found it by entering Charlotte Muir with birth "At Sea" in "All Resources".

Husband
 Capt James Muir Pedigree
  
  Birth:  30 OCT 1827  Whitby, Yorkshire, England
Christening:    
Marriage:  13 JUN 1860  , London, England
Death:  11 JUN 1899  Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Burial:    Toxteth Park Cemetery, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
    
 Father:   Capt Thomas Muir Family
Mother:   Mary Dale  
 
~~~~~~~~
 
Wife
 Charlotte Maria Ann Jenkins Wilkinson King Pedigree
 
   Birth:  16 OCT 1833  , Barbados, Caribbean
Christening:  03 NOV 1833  , Barbados, Caribbean
Marriage:  13 JUN 1860  , London, England
Death:  05 NOV 1879  Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Burial:    Toxteth Park Cemetery, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
  
 Father:   James King Family
Mother:      
 ~~~~~~~~
 Children
~~~~~~~~
 
1.   Mary Barron Muir    Female  
    
   Birth:  03 SEP 1861  London, London, England
Christening:    
Death:  16 JAN 1914  
Burial:    
  
~~~~~~~~
 
2.   Thomas King Muir    Male  
    
   Birth:  24 JAN 1863  Ship "Falkland", , , At Sea
Christening:    
Death:  29 FEB 1932  
Burial:    
  
 ~~~~~~~~
  3.   Unavailable  
~~~~~~~~
 
4.   Charlotte Georgina Dale Muir
   Female  
    
   Birth:  29 DEC 1867  At Sea Ship "Golden Eagle", , , At Sea
Christening:    
Death:  30 AUG 1913  
Burial:    
 
 ~~~~~~~~
   5.   Unavailable
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  6.   Unavailable
 
User-submitted records vary in reliability, but this looks a good line to follow - it explains nicely why Allan's wife Charlotte has Dale as a third name.


And we now have 2 more surnames  to look for - BARRON & KING  :)
BURROW, BICKHAM, EVANS, SULLEY, STONE - Devon
STEPHENS, MALLET, ADAMS - Cornwall
HANCOCK , BUSSON - Somerset
MCCALLUM, MCDIARMID, MCNEILL - Argyle, Scotland
WALLS, SUTHERLAND, SIMPSON - Orkney, Scotland
FAIRBAIRN - Fife, Scotland
THOMPSON - Aberdeen, Scotland