June 2005 RootsChat Challenge

[Paul E]

Hi kenjo

You've probably gathered that we have all contributed snippets here and there - like finding pieces of a jigsaw puzzle under the table!

The Robertson line we began with hasn't been firmly linked to the Robertson family who seem to merge at some point into the Rankin - Gilmour et al story.

I don't think anyone could have predicted the direction of this thread when it began - its been a wonderful roller-coaster journey, though!

The Challenge has shifted focus so many times (inevitably) and the current impetus is to discover a link between the two Robertson families (although I've lost sight of why!)

But hey - its fun!

cheers

Paul

[Manchester Rambler]

We have a rather indirect link between the Pollok/Gilmour family and the original Robertson line we started with: a grandson of Allan Gilmour and Elizabeth Pollok (I keep typing that wrong!) married Isabella Buchanan Ewing, whose brother James married Helen Robertson, aunt of our starting-point Allan Robertson.

However, there's a second Robertson family, who also originate in Greenock and finish up around Liverpool, who seem to have McIver/Rankin connections, and we're trying to establish whether they are related to "our" Robertson line or not. 

There are too many interesting branches in this family! 

Rambler



 

[kenjo]

Allan Gilmour married Isabella Buchanan Ewing 3/9/1850 at Dunoon, she was born9/10/1823 Glasgow the eldest daughter of William Ewing of Ardvullen, near Dunoon.
They moved into Hazleden house, not long after the death of Allans Uncle. The estate came to about 16,500 acres.,
They then built  Eaglesham House to be more central.
They had the following children
1.   Allan Gilmour, 1851-1917.
2.   James Gilmour, 1853, he owned huge estates in California.
died22 nov 1881. he left everything to his aunt.
MRS HELEN RANKIN MUIR.
but she gave this all up to give it to James's sister Isabella.
3.   William Ewing Gilmour 21/5/1854 devon.
He joined his Uncles firm John Orr Ewing& Co. Turkey Red Dyers,. he did many great things, and ended up owning more than 300,000 arcres. he died 31/1/1924 in Glasgow. his movable estate worth 238,421.pounds.
4.   John Alexander Gilmour 2/8/1855 Hazleden.
      died 10/1/1884 eaglesham
5.   Susan Ewing Gilmour 23/1/1857 Hazleden
6.   Arthur Archibald Gilmour 22/5/1859 Hazleden died about 1898.
7.  Isabella Buchanan Gilmour. 9/11/1861 Eaglesham House.
died Edinburgh 15/3/1900
8.   Agnes Stuart Gilmour 26/7/1863 Eaglesham House possibly married a Mr Marshall aug 1898.
9.   Edward Gilmour, 29/7/1865 Eaglesham House, only lived 14 days.
Helen Rankin Gilmour, b 1839? daughter of James Gilmour b14/10/1782. and Clementia Stewart b. 1799 kenmore Perthshire.
married in Polnoon Lodge 29/8/1861,
to Lieutenant Joseph Johnstone Muir, later a Major in the Madras Staff Corps, she was wiidowed, by1878- 1882.
she died 19/8/1919.Moffat.

It is interesting that he was a Major in the Madras Staff Corps,
because when I did the research for a Smith who had the same job.
modified.......John Smith, Major General, Bengal Staff Corps.
his mum was a Molison.[i don't know if that is similar]
I don't know if any of this is relevant, I can't follow whats going on.
ssssssso I'll stop there. incase it is all a waste.
That was all courtesy of Alistair R Hill.
regards
kenjo

[Paul E]

Lots of familiar surnames cropping up there Kenjo - thanks!

In one posting you've got

Ewing
Gilmour
Rankin
Orr
Marshall
Muir
Molison

Almost the full pack!

cheers

Paul

[Manchester Rambler]

I've chased my tail with the "other" Robertsons, but can't see how they're linked to the McIvers, and can't find a link to Allan Robertson's family.  Here's what I have:

Thomas Boyd m. Mary Dow in Ardrossan, Ayr on 20 Aug 1781.

Their daughter Margaret (b. Greenock, 26 Aug 1798) m. Archibald Robertson in Greenock on 15 Feb 1819.

Another daughter Agnes (b. Greenock, 31 Mar 1801) m. John Robertson in Greenock on 19 Oct 1824. 
Are Archibald and John brothers?

Archibald and Margaret had 3 children:

Mary Dow Robertson - b. Greenock, 16 Jan 1820
William Wood Robertson - b. Greenock, 29 Aug 1821
Thomas Boyd Robertson - chr. Liverpool, 06 Jun 1824

William Wood Robertson m. Eleanor Crouchley Pendlebury and had 6 children:

Alan Robertson - b. Birkenhead, 1851
Archibald McIver Robertson - b. Ireland, c1856
Robert Pendlebury Robertson - b. Ireland, c1858; d. Liverpool, 1881
Sarah L Robertson - b. Liverpool, c1860
Agnes Boyd Robertson - b. Liverpool, c1866; m. William Baddeley Pedder 1895
Margaret M Robertson - b. Liverpool, c1868

I've no idea why Archibald's middle name is McIver, or why William's is Wood.  Any helpful suggestions welcome, otherwise I'm giving up on this lot for the time being!

Rambler

[Nessie]

Could be mothers mothers maiden name and or mothers grandmothers maiden name.

[Joanna Tolhurst]

We need to be carefully when trying to link up our Robertsons:
There are Robertsons in many parts of Scotland with a concentration in Dundee and Perth. It is the fifth most common name in Scotland. The present chief is Alexander Haldane Robertson and there is a Clan Museum between Blair Atholl and Struan.
from rampantscotland website
Mind we all enjoy a challenge!

[Paul E]

That's a fair point, JoT - and although I was starting to realise it was common, I hadn't appreciated quite how common!  Maybe if we had a Scottish Top Ten on Berlin-Bob's Surname Interest Table we would hae worked that out by now (I mean 'have' but I'm slipping into the dialect as I type!).

Focusing on MR's point: we might be encountering the phenomenon of using a middle name derived from a godparent, which of course makes it almost impossible to link the families. 

The question is how can this collective best use its energies in the week that remains of the Challenge?

How about if we try to tease out whether John and Archibald were brothers...

 (Still can't tell whether MRs children should have their pocket money stopped for their random selection, or whether we should buy them a super present for the great fun they've allowed us to have!!!!)

Paul

[Manchester Rambler]

I quite agree about Robertson being a relatively common name - it's just that both families originate in Greenock, finish up around Liverpool and have similar occupations, so they seemed worth investigating further.  However, I've failed to find a connection - I tried to find Robertsons married to Woods or McIvers to account for the middle names, but with no success.  The "other" Robertsons seem to have some kind of commercial (?) link to the Rankin and Gilmour families, and the Gilmours are linked indirectly to Allan Robertson's branch, but it's all a bit too vague.  (Although I'd be very happy to be proved wrong if anyone wants to carry on digging!)

I think we've been lucky in having a few families with fairly uncommon names (Mollison, Leckie, Orr, Ewing) linked to Allan's family - and Scottish naming patterns have been a great help!  I wish I had a few Scottish ancestors of my own to research now I know how it works.

Looking at Allan's direct ancestors, I see there's at least one couple we haven't looked at yet, and that's his g-g-grandparents, Robert Davidson and Christian Philip (or Philp).  (Their daughter Margaret married William Maule Molison, if you remember.)  Robert and Christian were married in Nigg, Kincardine on 13 Jun 1784 - can anyone take it from there?

Back in half an hour - my Labrador is telling me it's W-A-L-K time...

Rambler