Here's one for you

[Pejic]

My grandson had an ancestor, one John Patching who on 3rd December 1549 was found guilty of High Treason and sentenced to be executed at Tyburn (hung, drawn and quartered?). I have his IPM [30-3-1550, Chancery 92.96] but apart from his arraignment: "Accused that 6 Aug 1549, at Horsham, in the County of Sussex, with other offenders, compassed and imagined the King's death, and to deprive him of his Crown and Dignity", I have been unable to find any further particulars of this heinous crime, for which the family property does not seem to have been forfeited.

Can anyone else find anything to enliven tales around the fireside this Xmas?

[Hackstaple]

Kett's Rebellion (1549)

In 1549, King Edward VI ruled England, though the government was under control of the Protestant Lord Protector Somerset. In East Anglia, a Norfolk gentleman named Robert Kett led a rebellion against the king's religious policies, the dissolution of the monasteries, and the very unpopular enclosure of common lands by greedy noblemen. The rebels were defeated at Norwich by an English army supported by foreign mercenaries.

Seems as though it is a possible link but the insurgents were all supposed to be from the Norwich area. However there were other rebellions at the same time - Exeter being one of them.

[Gardener]

It says here http://www.stillthere.info/tree4/patch12redjohn.htm that his mother was "seized of" various properties - doesn't that mean that they were taken from her?

[Greensleeves]

In English law, 'to be seized of' means to be in possession of.

Regards,
GS

[PrueM]

I agree about "seized of".  The way it is worded, it sounds as if John's mother conveniently owned all the property: "Elizabeth Michell, widow, mother of John Patching at his attainder was seized of..." and it could therefore, presumably, not be taken away from the family.

"The word "attainder", meaning "taintedness", is part of English common law. Under English law, a criminal condemned for a serious crime, whether treason or felony (but not misdemeanour, which referred to less serious crimes), could be declared "attainted", meaning that his civil rights were nullified: he could no longer own property or pass property to his family by will or testament. His property could consequently revert to the Crown or to the mesne lord. Any peerage titles would also revert to the Crown. The convicted person would normally be punished by judicial execution as well—when a person committed a capital crime and was put to death for it, the property left behind escheated to the Crown or lord rather than being inherited by family. Attainder functioned more or less as the revocation of the feudal chain of privilege and all rights and properties thus granted." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_of_attainder#English_law)

[Pejic]

thanks everyone but especially Gardener - that link was great - and it led on (as they do) to others).

No enlightenment regarding the specific treason of John Patching, but I am fast gaining an idea of what state rural England was in at the time, and I have found one snitch in Horsham who could easily have reported a rash conversation.

[Gardener]

In English law, 'to be seized of' means to be in possession of.

Regards,
GS

Thanks for that  I hate legalese!

Prue said

I agree about "seized of".  The way it is worded, it sounds as if John's mother conveniently owned all the property: "Elizabeth Michell, widow, mother of John Patching at his attainder was seized of..." and it could therefore, presumably, not be taken away from the family.

That sounds a lot like what the wheelers and dealers in Iceland did when the financial system crashed - all of a sudden companies were spirited away and owned by other family members 

[Jane Lucy Patching]

re John Patching of Horsham 1510-1549 who was also an ancestor of mine.

have a look at wrap.warwick.ac.uk./1246/1WRAP_THESIS_JONES_2003.pdf.  There is a note that says that his wife may have all her husband's copyhold forfieted by attainder etc. for the sustenance of his wife and children. 
The disertation is by Amanda Clair Jones. Hope this of some use.

[Pejic]

Welcome to RootsChat Jane and thanks for the Link, the pdf is downloading as I type.

For the benefit of anyone else looking for it there should be a forward slash '/' between "1" and "WRAP"