Dale family of North Shields

[johngosling]

Hello all,

Might anyone have encountered my Dale family of North Shields?

I'm particularly interested in learning if anyone has access to trade directories for North Shields, and can see if the name Dale crops us as a "Slater and Tiler".

Trade Directories are pretty obvious, but I was wondering if any other records might have survived that would allow me to piece together anything more on their business.

I was motivated to think this by the recent discovery of a newspaper article from 1870, which relates to the building of a United Methodist Chapel (I don't necessarily think any of my Dales were Methodists) at Shank House colliery, Cramlington, which appears to have had it's roof constructed by a Mr Dale, slater of North Shields. So I'm sure this would have been either great granddad or grand uncle, John Golightly Dale.

My grandfather, great grandfather, great grand uncle, and several other siblings were all in the trade.

Edward Mowbray Dale (1857-1959), my grandfather, had quite a successful business on Tynemouth Road. I have a lovely picture of his Horse and Cart outside the premises, the horse all decked out, and the cart with a roof built on it - I believe it won awards in various parades.

His father, also a slater by trade, was George Henry Dale (1853-1906.)

If anyone else happens to be researching this particular Dale family, I'd be delighted to share info.

Regards

John

[nort]

John,i had a look in a couple of Northumberland Trade Directories and this is what i found.

1879 Directory
Slater
Dale Wm 68 Reed St North Shields

1883 Directory
Slate Merchant
Dale William 68 Reed St North Shields.

Hope that might help.
Steve

[c-side]

And an earlier one from me -

From Kelly's 1858

William Dale, Slater, 57 King Street, North Shields

Also, In Whellans Street Directory for 1855 there is
Dale, Mr. William, Newcastle Terrace, Tynemouth and
Dale, Mrs. Jane, ditto

No mention in that one of a slater but could be the same people.

Christine

[johngosling]

Well, that is very very interesting.

You've both uncovered a new Dale, and I'm not at all sure who he is, but I am convinced there has to be connection to my Dales.

Here's what I have, and how perhaps this new William Dale fits in.

What I know for a fact:

My grandfather was Edward Mowbray Dale (1887-1959).

He married a Robertina Walker on Sept 12th 1909.

Edward was a slater.

From the marriage cert, I know Edward's father was George Henry Dale (1853-1906), also a slater, deceased at the time of his son's marriage.

George Henry Dale married Elizabeth Weightman on April 3rd 1880. The marriage cert confirms him as a slater, and gives his father as William.

This is where certainty starts to erode.

Ah ha, you might say, but George's father William, must be the William uncovered in the trade directories, but apparently not so. The marriage cert for George and Elizabeth gives William's profession as Mariner, and I have a good set of census records to support this.

So, I've looked up this new William Dale, slater, and there he is. Born 1832, and a slater all his working life. My William I have born 1822.

Now, it is perhaps telling that William Dale (1832-) lived at 68 Reed St - he's there in the directories, and in the 1881 census, but so too is my William, born 1822, at number 26 Reed St.

Co-incidence?

Surely not.

William (1832) is a "Master slater" and has 9 men working for him in 1881. I wonder, was one of those men George Henry Dale? Did George learn his trade from another Dale, surely related.

But where's the actual relationship between William (1832) and William (1822).

I'm not quite there yet, but there is one pointer.

I trace, with some degree of caution I must add, as I've not seen supporting documents with my own eyes, back to a great great great great grandfather, Shallet Dale, who married a Dorothy Metcalf.

The father of William Dale (1832) was John Dale (that looks pretty certain). Another of his sons was a John Phillip Dale, who named one of his daughters Augusta Mitcalfe Dale. Not quite the same spelling, but Mitcalfe, Metcalf sounds interesting, and always a good sign I think that a name gets repeat use.  It screams out connection.

But that's where it all gets really muddy.

I thought I had something, when I spotted that in 1891, John Phillip Dale, now aged 56, was living with his Aunt, Jane Dale, aged 70. So born circa 1821.

I have a Jane Dale, 1823 daughter of Henry Dale, a son of Shallet Dale and Dorothy Metcalf

It crossed my mind that William (1832) might be an as yet unidentified brother to Jane, 1823, but I see other researchers have her married off, and still living with her husband in 1891. Another Jane Dale does pop up every ten years, born 1821, and unmarried, which fits with her living with John Philip under her maiden name in 1891, but that sends me off on another blind alley for now.

Bottom line, I just can't believe all these Dales are not connected, but for now the connection eludes me.

Perhaps one day, someone will read this, and know exactly what that connection is.

Hope this proves useful to someone one day.

Regards

John

[c-side]

It sounds like one of those logic puzzles where you have to work out who lives in the house with the red door   

Don't forget there's a Jane Dale living in Tynemouth with William Dale!

Where do these people give for their places of birth on the census records?  It might be possible to sort them out via baptisms.

Christine

[2zpool]

Only one Jane Dale baptism near the early 1820's...30 Oct 1824, born 19 Jan 1823 d/o Henry and Jane Dale, Dockwray Square, Solicitor

Shallett John Dale baptised 27 Oct 1821, born 15 July 1821, and also the same day Dorothy Dale, born Dec 29 1819,  children of Henry and Jane Dale, Dockwray Square, Gent.  Henry and Jane had 2 William's called William Reed Dale, first one baptised in 1825, that one died, the second baptised 17 Feb 1827

Since Shallett seems to be a family name there is a Shallett Dale baptised 17 Aug 1819, born 3 Mar 1819  s/o John and Isabella Dale, Dockwray Square, Ship Owner, also the same day baptised William Metcalfe born 17 May 1817.  This Barrington era baptisms gives more information:  Margaret Dale, born 19 Jun 1812 baptised 4 Sep 1812 1st daur of John Dale of Dockwray Square, Ship Owner, native of All Saints parish by his wife Isabella Mitcalf native of this parish

John Phillip Dale baptised 1 Jun 1834 s/o John and Elizabeth Dale, Toll Square, Mariner.  I believe this John and Elizabeth had a son William baptised 18 Mar 1832.   Dorthea Maria Mitcalfe Dale was baptised 26 Feb 1837 d/o John and Elizabeth, Beacon Street, Mariner

I don't know if this helps any.  I don't see a whole lot of connection between a Solicitor, Ship Owner, and Mariner with a Slater

All these parish records are available on the BT's for you to look at.  There are a lot more children some burials.

Janis

[johngosling]

Yes, I agree. I've always felt misgivings about the Shallet side of things. As I mentioned, I've not seen sight of documents to support this connection. I'm just parroting what others have done, which is always dangerous. Next step I think is for me to order the birth cert for George Henry Dale. His parents should be William Dale, Mariner, and Mary Golightly, daughter of John, a Trimmer.

That will give me a solid paper trail in my hands so I can be confident of what I am looking for next.

I still remain immensely excited about the new William Dale uncovered in this discussion. The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that George Henry must have been one of those nine men in the employ of William.

I wonder, going back to my original question (we've gone far further than I envisaged), might anyone know if things like apprenticeship records have survived in North Shields. Has anyone tried researching family from the perspective of their line of work? For instance, might local business associations retained records?

Regards

John

[c-side]

If any have survived then they're likely to be at Tyne and Wear Archives or Possibly at Woodhorn.

I've had a quick look at the catalogue for T & W Archives but nothing is showing up for slater.  I'm not the best at searching catalogues so you might have more success.

There is also North Shields library.  Though I haven't used it I am told that their local history section is good and the staff very helpful.

Christine

[WolfieSmith]

Some baptisms at Howard St. Wesleyan Chapel, North Shields.

Mary Ann, daughter of William Dale, Seaman, of Tynemouth in the County of Northumberland, by Elizabeth, his wife, was born 6th February 1817 and baptized 12th February 1817.

Jane, the daughter of William Dale, of Tynemouth, in the parish of Tynemouth, in the County of Northumberland, and of Elizabeth, his wife, who was the daughter of Edward and Frances Skelton, was born Jan 29th 1820, and baptized July 12th 1820.

Born April 18 1822. Baptized May 19 1822. William Dale, son of William and Elizabeth Dale, of Tynemouth, father a Mariner, mothers parents - Edward and Frances Skelton.

A baptism at Grimsby St. James. 1 Dec 1785. Eliz. daughter of Edward and Frances Skelton.

A marriage at Grimsby St. James. 12 Oct 1806. William Dale, Bachelor, Royal Navy,of HM Armed Brigg Providence stationed in the Humber, and Elizabeth Skelton. Witnesses John Skelton and William Bond.

In 1851 census, the father of William b. 1832, Slater, is John Dale, aged 43, Mariner, born Grimsby Lincolnshire.

So perhaps William 1822 and William 1832 are cousins.

Alan.