Liverpool Pals

[cview42]

I have a photograph of my father, Frank Pedder Cannell, as a volunteer for the King's Liverpool Regt as one of Earl Derby's Pals in 1914, complete with silver cap badge. His medal sheet shows him a Frank Peddar in the Border Regt being awarded the British Medal and the Victory medal, but not the Star, I remember the two medals as a child, but they disappeared sometime. He was wounded with a Blighty, and didn't return to the front, I know not where or when.  I remember him saying that they generally didn't have trouble with German snipers, because quite a few of the regiment were former gamekeepers, and accustomed to handling firearms, which would fit the Borders rather than the Pals. Like most of the WW1 soldiers he spoke very little of his experiences.

His brother RJB also volunteered with the Pals and ended up in the Royal Engineers. did this Regiment swapping take place frequently in the early years of the war? Were service numbers given sequentially throughout the Army, or within a Regiment in the non computer days? His number on the card is 33138, his brother's 47468, quite a large difference.

Pete

[cview42]

Looks as though I should have come to this page before I posted, my aplogies,

Pete

[km1971]

Hi Pete

During WW1 they used regimental numbers. So you cannot compare 33138 in the Border Regiment with 47468 in the Royal Engineers.

Looking at their medal cards neither mentions the Liverpool Regiment. So if their service records have not survived is the only clue to them being in the Liverpool Pals the photograph?

Ken

[cview42]

Hello Ken,

Thanks for the response. Yes the photo is the only clue I have about the regiment, I was in Liverpool several years ago and went into the King's Reg. recruiting Office when they still had one. The Captain behind the desk identified him as having a silver cap badge, which he said had been provided to each of the Pals volunteers by Lord Derby. I can't recall him ever saying anything about the Border Regt, and it's base is a fair way from Liverpool, nor did he say very much about the whole experience. Certainly the 33138 number is in the right range for Liverpool Pals 18th., but if the number changes with each regiment, and I only found out last night that it did, then it's fairly meaningless. He has no Star, so I guess he didn't make it to the front until after 1915 although the first Pals K.I.A. I found was 20-12-15.

There was some mention of him being involved in training, but don't know where, when, or if indeed it's true and where it sits in respect of the Blighty. He was Blightied while out on patrol, so that's not going to provide much of a clue either.

I don't know about Uncle Bob, RJB, he was a Delivery Clerk in the Post Office at the time, with no Engineering skills that were ever manifested before or after. He, too, survived and worked the rest of his life in the P.O. in Liverpool.

Thanks once again,

Pete

[ainslie]

The Liverpool Pals battalions wore the eagle and child badge, Lord Derby's crest and not the usual KLR horse.  Early volunteers did receive a silver badge, but would that show up in the photo?  Can you post the photo here?
One possibility is that both men signed up for the Pals but had to be transferred to other regiments, perhaps because of illness or injury before leaving UK.

[cview42]

Hello Ainslie,

I'm having trouble attaching the photo of only 55KB, I keep getting "you need to re-attach messages", but the cap badge is clearly the eagle and child of the Pals. Have no photo of my Uncle Bob, who was in his late 20's and married by 1914, don't know that that made any difference to his deployment, I doubt it.

Pete

[ainslie]

The photo appears 100% and is very clearly of a Pal and his 'Derby' badge.  I agree that age and marital status would be unlikely to affect his deployment.
A

[jds1949]

It's not clear from your original post whether you are aware that, in addition to the medal card,  there is a surviving pension record for Robert James Brownbugh Cannell 47668 Royal Engineers. You'll find it on Ancestry. If you don't have a subscription for Ancestry, then might I suggest that you try your local library - most have free access. I had a quick look but could not see any reference to the Liverpool Regiment in his papers.

jds1949

[cview42]

Hello jds,

Thanks for your help. I spent a fair bit of yesterday afternoon at the Library, and on one of Uncle Bob's 17 pages was one joining him to the RE's as a Telelgraph Operator, learn something new everyday. On this page it said previous Military History, where there was an entry  "2 Vol Battalion King's Liverpool Regiment and Denbigh Hussars Iy time expired", but no dates attached, the first date was 18-11-14 when he joined the REs in London. He served in Bedford until cessation. I did see that he had a "Disability Code 15" after his stint in Palestine in 1919, which included a spell in Hospital and as you said a pension of 6/- for 7 and a bit weeks then 8/8d for another 9 and a bit weeks, "to be reviewed".

It led me to wonder whether the more populated areas of the country were used to top up the regiments being formed in the less populated areas, and the redistribution started reasonably early in the scene. I don't suppose there were too many telegraph operators around in 1914, and he'd have been in demand, I imagine. He was reported as being "very intelligent", and did retire as Deputy Super of the P.O. in Liverpool.

Nothing for my Dad other than the medal Card. I had thought that when he was shipped out of France he may have been transferred to the Regiment based nearest to the hospital at which he was being treated, but this may not be the case. I did manage to trace another of the brothers as a Constable/Sergeant/Inspector in Sydney N.S.W. from1912, and the fourth was a Liverpool Pilot and a 1918 'flu victim.

Thanks for your help and interest

Pete