Rose Bina Hawkins b. 1888 Battersea/Wandsworth.

[ScallyW]

I generally don't take a lot of notices of trees either but I will use them as a guide of what to investigate further but I like to confirm things myself rather than just follow the crowd when it comes to believing what you read.

And it's true that we don't know for sure that her parents were married but I don't think she got her 'late-marriage' genes from her mother... her 'husband' wasn't free to marry her while they were living together and procreating (nudge, nudge, wink, wink)... but they certainly presented themselves as husband and wife on the baptism record so should have followed form on the census records as well.

I have just found a census record for a William Hawkins (b. 1845, Wilcott, living in reg district of Pewsey, Wilts) in 1861 with his father Job.  Hmmm... interesting.  I wonder if Rose Bina thought she was an only child and told her future family that she had no family, although as the last census record shown below above has her at approx 13 years of age, she should have remembered siblings!  

[ScallyW]

Unfortunately we know that Rose Bina was an only child so none of the William & Mary Jane families listed with other children can be connected to her.

I am  unsure how you "know" this with no census etc records to show . . . .

do you mean that Family stories passed down have said this?

Not stories as such, not in the sense of 'I heard a rumour that....'  but a family bible that shows all the grandparents in it and their brothers and sisters and their parents names.  So we knew before looking for records that Rose Bina's parents were called William and Mary Jane Hawkins, it didn't, unfortunately list the maiden names of the women.

We may have no option but to get the birth certificate but as I'm doing the research on behalf of a cousin's husband, they'll have to decide that and I've put it to her as an option.  The trouble being, of course, that if it does confirm that she was a Godfrey prior to marriage, it doesn't really help us know more about her husband or his family unless they can find in their paperwork, as I said below, proof that there were other children born to the couple.

[ScallyW]

Good Afternoon
1871 9 Andrew St Bromley St Leonard
Job Hawkins 33 labourer Wiltshire
Elizabeth 29 WiltshirE

They may not be the right couple but somethings do fit.
Ciderdrinker

That fits in with the 1861 record I just found so thank you for that.

Regards
ScallyW.

[carol8353]

In 1881(with mum called Mary Jane!)

At 3 Devonshire Street Camberwell.

William Hawkins 30 head general labourer b Wilcott Wilts
Mary Jane Hawkins wife 34 b Deptford Kent
Louise J E Hawkins dau 2 b St Mary Cray Kent
Alice A Hawkins dau 1 b Camberwell

Louisa Jane Elizabeth Hawkins married Charles Arnold on 5th March 1899 in Walworth Southwark.
I can't read the address other than 33..... her father is William Hawkins labourer and the witnesses were John Page and Florence Arnold.

[carol8353]

Alice Ann Hawkins baptised on 10th April 1881 at Christ Church Camberwell,parents William and Mary Jane he's a labourer and they live at 3 Devonshire Street as the 1881 census.

[lizdb]

Where did you get Rose Bina's date of birth from?
Just looked at her christening record and it isnt from there!

[ScallyW]

@ Carol,

Thanks for the additional info.... I think while we're waiting on news for Rose Bina's birth certificate and the time it may take to come, a good option might be to investigate the lines of these 'siblings' and see if there is any knowledge in the family that there was a 'lost sister' who strayed from the fold.  I suppose it's not impossible that as she did set up with someone and start having kids without the benefit of marriage, their may have been a rift in the family and each side cut themselves off.... ergo, her calling herself an only child when giving family details to her daughter in law who wrote out the bible.  

[ScallyW]

Where did you get Rose Bina's date of birth from?
Just looked at her christening record and it isnt from there!

From her death certificate in 1970.

[carol8353]

@ Carol,

Thanks for the additional info.... I think while we're waiting on news for Rose Bina's birth certificate and the time it may take to come, a good option might be to investigate the lines of these 'siblings' and see if there is any knowledge in the family that there was a 'lost sister' who strayed from the fold.  I suppose it's not impossible that as she did set up with someone and start having kids without the benefit of marriage, their may have been a rift in the family and each side cut themselves off.... ergo, her calling herself an only child when giving family details to her daughter in law who wrote out the bible.  

I am indeed doing that- and as most of them were quite a bit older than Rose ,they could have easily married and left home well before she really knew them.

I was hoping to find Rose as a witness to some of the marriages ,but she isn't.

I now have Arthur's and Fredericks,but no useful witnesses there.