Author Topic: Rose Bina Hawkins b. 1888 Battersea/Wandsworth.  (Read 7848 times)

Offline ScallyW

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Rose Bina Hawkins b. 1888 Battersea/Wandsworth.
« on: Thursday 15 November 12 11:54 GMT (UK) »
Hello everyone,

Hoping for some insight into a wee mystery I have with this person and one of her parents.

Rose Bina Hawkins was born 6th Jan 1888 and was baptised on 25th Jan 1888, St. Saviours, Battersea.  Her parents were listed as William Hawkins (Labourer) and Mary Jane.  She married in 1951 although she was together with her future husband as early as 1916 as that was when they had their first child.  I also have her in 1911 as a servant to a grocer in South Hayling, Hampshire - the use of the unusual middle name of Bina shows that it is the right person as well as her giving her birth place on the census record as Battersea, London.  What I can't find is any record of her, or her parents, in 1891 or 1901 nor of her father prior to his wedding.

The only appropriate marriage between a William Hawkins and a Mary Jane in the time scale and area needed is one on 4th Jan 1880, at the parish church in St. George the Martyr, Southwark.  Both parties are listed as living in High Street, Borough.  From this I can trace Mary Jane's (her birth would have been 1857, Deptford) family quite easily in earlier census records with the knowledge of her father's name, William Henry Godfrey.  However, William's father is listed as Job Hawkins (Labourer), Deceased and no age is given on the marriage record for the groom to help tie him down. 

I cannot find William living with a father named Job anywhere in the area prior to this marriage so am a bit stumped.  I did wonder if they came from Hampshire - therefore explaining why Rose Bina turned up there in 1911 if they had returned to his stomping ground after their marriage - but I can't find them there either.  In theory, it's possible that he died or they went their separate ways after the marriage but he must have been around some time in 1887 to have gotten his wife pregnant with Rose Bina!

There is a 1881 census record for a William 23, (1858, Vauxhall, Surrey, Plasterer) and Mary Hawkins 25 (1956 with only a 'ditto' under the Surrey part of the address and the district left blank) 108 Ingrave St, Battersea which could be them....and could not be them as well.  Family history tells us that Rose Bina was an only child so we don't have the option of using siblings to find the family between their marriage and Rose Bina appearing in 1911 in Hampshire.

There is a William Hawkins listed in 1871 at Camberwell noted as stepson to a Thomas G Pocock and wife Rebecca A so thinking that we know his father, Job, was dead, I investigated her marriages but found her previous husband to be a Thomas Barret Hawkins s/o Marshall Hawkins - no sniff of the name Job Hawkins.

There is another William Hawkins listed in 1871 at Hackney with his age given as 14 (1857) with a birth place only as London, Middlesex and he is listed with his widowed mother, Maria Hawkins (1830, Exeter, Devon).  Tracing this family back gives us a 1861 census with Maria living with husband William 36 (1825, Hoxton) and assorted children, one of which is a William Edward 6, (1855, born Haggerston).  Haggerston is part of Hoxton so no connection to Vauxhall at all and the census was taken Stoke Newington so the area and the father's name doesn't match.

I'm doing wonderfully well at finding out who William Hawkins isn't, but not so well finding out who he was.

I can't find much info on anyone called Job Hawkins either, with no birth or death date or idea of where they lived, my brick wall seems very firm at the moment.

Can anyone help....?

Regards
ScallyW.
Paternal family names: Lee & Smith
Maternal family names: Hollis, Lambert, Donaghue & Osborne.

Offline carol8353

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Re: Rose Bina Hawkins b. 1888 Battersea/Wandsworth.
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 15 November 12 12:41 GMT (UK) »
To help anyone looking for the family in 1891,the address given on her Jan 1888 baptism was 34 Austin Road Battersea.

There is a also a baptism of an Arthur Albert Hawkins with parents William and Mary Jane at St Paul's Battersea on 26 May 1886.William is a labourer( as on Rose's baptism) and this time they are at 52 Henley Street Battersea.

Do you not have Rose's birth cert,which should tell you her mothers maiden name?

Births Mar 1888   

HAWKINS    Rose Bina         Wandsworth    1d   591

Order for £9-25 from http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

Carol
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Offline carol8353

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Re: Rose Bina Hawkins b. 1888 Battersea/Wandsworth.
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 15 November 12 13:04 GMT (UK) »
Have you considered this family in 1891?

Living at 21 Longcroft Camberwell,

William Hawkins 40 widowed general labourer b Pewsey Wilts
Louisa Hawkins    13 dau scholar        b "              "
Fred Hawkins    8 son scholar b St Mary's Bay Kent
Arthur Hawkins    5 son "         b Camberwell
Rosy Hawkins    3 dau b "           "

RG12/486 Folio 16 Page 23
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Offline carol8353

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Re: Rose Bina Hawkins b. 1888 Battersea/Wandsworth.
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 15 November 12 13:18 GMT (UK) »
In 1881(with mum called Mary Jane!)

At 3 Devonshire Street Camberwell.

William Hawkins 30 head general labourer b Wilcott Wilts
Mary Jane Hawkins wife 34 b Deptford Kent
Louise J E Hawkins dau 2 b St Mary Cray Kent
Alice A Hawkins dau 1 b Camberwell

RG11/691 Folio 118 Page 79

Perhaps this death? Although the age isn't right.

Deaths Dec 1890   

Hawkins    Mary Jane    age 36    Lambeth    1d   243



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Offline ciderdrinker

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Re: Rose Bina Hawkins b. 1888 Battersea/Wandsworth.
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 15 November 12 13:29 GMT (UK) »
1901 10 Derney Road Camberwell
William Hawkins 56 wid day lab Camberwell
Arthur son 14 carriers boy? same
Rose 13  same

Ciderdrinker

Offline ScallyW

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Re: Rose Bina Hawkins b. 1888 Battersea/Wandsworth.
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 15 November 12 13:54 GMT (UK) »
@  carol8353 & ciderdrinker

Thanks for the replies.

Unfortunately we know that Rose Bina was an only child so none of the William & Mary Jane families listed with other children can be connected to her.

The death in 1890 could be the mother - ir would tie in with the census records of the family you listed anyway - although in Q4 of 1890 my Mary Jane Hawkins would have been a couple of months shy of turning 34 having been born in Jan of 1857.  Not impossible as a mistake could easily have been made by the person who reported her death.

We don't currently have Rose Bina's birth certificate because we thought we had her parents confirmed as Hawkins/Godfrey and in the trees I've found that contain Mary Jane as a daughter, there are no alternative marriages for her to someone else to sway us from our conclusions.  I'll certainly check out the census records mentioned though and go back and confirm that we do know she had no brothers or sisters to at least properly discount these names.

Thanks.
ScallyW.

Edited to add:

Re the address on the baptism record.... unfortunately I have no idea of what enumeration district this would have come under in 1891 - and there are roughly 100 to choose from for Battersea in that year - so a mamouth task to try and find that precise address to see if they are still there....
Paternal family names: Lee & Smith
Maternal family names: Hollis, Lambert, Donaghue & Osborne.

Offline carol8353

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Re: Rose Bina Hawkins b. 1888 Battersea/Wandsworth.
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 15 November 12 14:10 GMT (UK) »


Edited to add:

Re the address on the baptism record.... unfortunately I have no idea of what enumeration district this would have come under in 1891 - and there are roughly 100 to choose from for Battersea in that year - so a mamouth task to try and find that precise address to see if they are still there....


Not a mammoth task at all- I looked the address up in the 1891 census on Find My past and they are not there.

You really should get her birth cert as it's the only 100% definite record that you can get at this stage. I would not set too much store by other people's trees on Ancestry or any other such website- one person makes a mistake and everyone picks it up as FACT.

I'm afraid I'm old school- get all the certs you can to confirm facts. That way you won't go searching up the wrong tree.

How do you know that her parents actually did marry..........she didn't till she was much older  ;D
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Offline ciderdrinker

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Re: Rose Bina Hawkins b. 1888 Battersea/Wandsworth.
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 15 November 12 14:20 GMT (UK) »
Good Afternoon
1871 9 Andrew St Bromley St Leonard
Job Hawkins 33 labourer Wiltshire
Elizabeth 29 WiltshirE
1881 32 TAPLEY sT bROMLEY
Job Hawkins 45 dock labourer Wilcott Wilts
Elizabeth 39 same
and 1891 no 27 Tapley St
Job Hawkins death Poplar June 1897 1c 325 age 59.Possible marriage Poplar June 1865 to Elizabeth Pearce 1c 1195(18.6.1865 All Saints lab Moule st lab s of Job gardener and Elizabeth Pearce Cotton St s of John lab)I do know it's after William's birth but some couples did marry after  they had children.
1851 Wilcott
Job Hawkins 44 gardener Willcott
Betty 45 Erchant Wilts
Thomas 25 ag lab
James 20
John 16
Honor 14
Job 12 ag lab
Henry 9 ag lab
William 6
George 5
Ann 3
Mary 3months
In 1841 the family are at the same place.
They may not be the right couple but somethings do fit.
Ciderdrinker

Offline lizdb

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Re: Rose Bina Hawkins b. 1888 Battersea/Wandsworth.
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 15 November 12 14:31 GMT (UK) »


Unfortunately we know that Rose Bina was an only child so none of the William & Mary Jane families listed with other children can be connected to her.


I am  unsure how you "know" this with no census etc records to show . . . .

do you mean that Family stories passed down have said this?

I think you will find that, whilst sometimes there is a element of truth in them, more often than not family stories cannot be relied upon!

As Carol says, you really need that birth cert t to check that her mums maiden name was Godfrey, and thus confirm if the marriage is the right one or not.
Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk
Parker - Sussex
Kemp - Essex
Farrington - Essex
Boniface - West Sussex

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