WILLIAM TOOLEY - CONVICT

[Reggie]

Hi

I have been researching the above person for a number of years now. I am absolutely stumped.

Please be aware I am fairly familiar with researching on the 'net.  However, I could be mistaken and therefore stand to be corrected.

William appeared in court on 26 Oct 1814 (see Old Bailey). He was convicted for life and transported to Australia.  He was 17 years old at the time which puts his birth at 1797. I have found a fairly close record of a William Tooley baptized on 18 Dec 1796 at St Andrew, Holborn to William and Ann Tooley. This is done by his age at conviction.  I have no real proof whether these are his parents.

I am trying to find his parents. There doesn't appear to be any record of his parents on his convict records here in Australia.  There must be something recorded in England before he was sent to Australia (one would think).

Can anyone assist me by pointing me in some direction to obtain his birth records?

Reg
Canberra, Australia

 

[Valda]

Hi

Making and maintaining records cost money. It involved employing people for the task and creating storage facilities. For central or local government institutions of the time (then and now) that required raising money through taxation.
Land tax was the main source of government revenue with income tax introduced in 1799 to pay only for the Napleonic war. It was not reintroduced until 1842.
Any records created in any period were there to service the needs of the institution creating them and not for the needs of the later genealogist. Age, name and brief description and details of the crime were all that were necessary to imprison, bring to trial and transport criminals at the beginning of the C19th. Where was the necessity for the institution, in this case central government, to spend resources on creating further records? Any calendars of prisoners are unlikely to give any further information and the main source for birthplaces for prisoners who appeared at the Old Bailey, Newgate prison registers would not begin with that level of detail until at the earliest 1817 (these registers are not indexed or online) though that source might be one to check just in case.

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/searchresults.asp?fldResultMarker=21&fldSearchNumber=85833&SearchInit=1

The National Archives information on what records are available

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/looking-for-person/
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/atoz/c.htm#


Regards

Valda

[horselydown86]

Hi Reggie,

Your strategy should be to track his life in Australia and find his death record.  Depending on where and when he died, the record may contain the names of his parents and an indication of his birthplace.  A centrally registered marriage (in Victoria, at least) should also have those details.

[Reggie]

Hi Reggie,

Your strategy should be to track his life in Australia and find his death record.  Depending on where and when he died, the record may contain the names of his parents and an indication of his birthplace.  A centrally registered marriage (in Victoria, at least) should also have those details.

Thanks for your reply.

I have traced all his convict details (and his descendants) pertaining to Australia (NSW). Strangely, there is no death certification at all in NSW.  He changed his name to Johnson and there is nothing under that name either. All I know is he died on 20th March 1837 in Sydney and was buried in the old Sandhills Cemetery. Just the bare details, name and death date is all I have for him and that was from the Gravestone Inscriptions NSW Volume 1 Sydney Burial Ground: Elizabeth & Devonshire Streets - "The Sandhills".

His marriage certification is very bare, only his name and wife's name.

That is why I am 'stumped'.

[majm]

All I know is he died on 20th March 1837 in Sydney and was buried in the old Sandhills Cemetery. Just the bare details, name and death date is all I have for him and that was from the Gravestone Inscriptions NSW Volume 1 Sydney Burial Ground: Elizabeth & Devonshire Streets - "The Sandhills".

His marriage certification is very bare, only his name and wife's name.

That is why I am 'stumped'.

Agh  so you have documentation for the marriage and the burial and those two events occurred BEFORE the commencement of civil registration in NSW, and thus from the era BEFORE the civil authorities required fuller details.   Burial records from pre 1856 are so scant with the details.     May I ask how you know your chap changed his name to JOHNSON ?  Have you considered that it may be a pointer to his likely/possible maternal line? 

I guess you have searched through the family history section of the NSW State Library and also perhaps know your way around both the NSW State Records Office and SAG as well 

When/where did he marry, and what name did he use when marrying?  Have you got to the actual parish register or have you needed to rely on the transmitted records from all the various denominations held at St Phillips as per Governor Macquarie's General Orders from Sept 1810 ? 

I do sympathise with your quest, and I definitely know why you are 'stumped' at the moment.

Cheers,  JM   

[Reggie]

All I know is he died on 20th March 1837 in Sydney and was buried in the old Sandhills Cemetery. Just the bare details, name and death date is all I have for him and that was from the Gravestone Inscriptions NSW Volume 1 Sydney Burial Ground: Elizabeth & Devonshire Streets - "The Sandhills".

His marriage certification is very bare, only his name and wife's name.

That is why I am 'stumped'.

Agh  so you have documentation for the marriage and the burial and those two events occurred BEFORE the commencement of civil registration in NSW, and thus from the era BEFORE the civil authorities required fuller details.   Burial records from pre 1856 are so scant with the details.     May I ask how you know your chap changed his name to JOHNSON ?  Have you considered that it may be a pointer to his likely/possible maternal line? 

I guess you have searched through the family history section of the NSW State Library and also perhaps know your way around both the NSW State Records Office and SAG as well 

When/where did he marry, and what name did he use when marrying?  Have you got to the actual parish register or have you needed to rely on the transmitted records from all the various denominations held at St Phillips as per Governor Macquarie's General Orders from Sept 1810 ? 

I do sympathise with your quest, and I definitely know why you are 'stumped' at the moment.

Cheers,  JM   

Thanks for your reply JM.

I have not been to the State Library in person. I have been to the complex out at Penrith some years ago when I was heavily into the research of the son's (also named William Tooley (Johnson)) details.

I am fortunate enough to have been able to get some information from a family tree that was published in the Daily Telegraph in 2007. It was a supplement, "Origins, Trace Your Family Tree". I have three issues and each concentrated on a celeb's family tree. In one of them was John Howard's (PM) family tree. My family share common ancestors. The 'tree' was prepared with the assistance by SAG.  I guess they had a few problems too because they stopped at the  point where I have stopped ('Stumped").  Until this Supplement I wasn't aware that the lastname was originally Tooley. That is how I know he changed his name to Johnson. He died in 1837 and buried under that name (as per grave inscription).

Your point about maternal line name is an avenue I can chase. Thanks for that reminder.

Reg