Robertson. Buffs and Royal west kents

[hollowayranger]

Hi all this was my late granfather hehas been a nightmare to track we think he married 4 times and changed his name each time
we knew him as Herbert henry Robertson 6/6/1884  father Alexander
but believe him to have been born Henry thomas Robinson 6/6/1884 calehill egerton kent

he joined army underage fought in boer war won DCM then served in india and middle east fought in ww1 winning bar to his DCM and finished as a colour sergent we think he was in royal west kents and the buffs but because he was under age he again may have used a different name  below are two photos one of the colour sergents who carried his coffin when he died in 1953 would the army have a record of the funeral? surely to have such a fine funeral he must have achieved those medals to which there seems no trace ? my father thinks he sold them either to pay the rent or for a few drinks 
the other photo is from the kent messenger 1953 can you believe he was killed by an 90 year old man driving on maidstone high street!!!!!!!

Anyone that can help solve the riddle of my granfathers army career would be gratfully received

[casalguidi]

I notice from one of your other posts that there is a WW1 medal card noting that he was awarded the SWB (silver war badge) so .................

Regimental number 40293 a/cpl Herbert H ROBERTSON discharged from unit 253 P. Co. RDC 9 Apr 1918 (enlisted 8 Sep 1914) due to sickness rather than wounds.  Age at discharge 33 so born Apr 1884 to Apr 1885 and had served overseas.

Just to note here the medal card also shows earlier regiment as pte 3139 West Kents and service in India with entry 29 Oct 1914 but only British war medal

What is it you are having trouble finding?  His birth?  Census entries?  Is the date of birth from family information or a birth certificate?

Further info on another post http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,381110.0.html

Casalguidi

[jomcd967]

Hi, Do you have his marriage certificate to Hettie Dawkins (Oct/Dec 1917, Southhampton, 2c,150) and if so does it give the same details as the marriage certificate to Ella Shepherd? Who are the witnesses on each?
Jo

[jomcd967]

Henrietta (Hetty) Banks married James Henry Dawkins 1902, Southampton Apr/Jun, 2C, 37. This would probably be the Hetty who married Herbert Henry Robertson as above. (James H Dawkins died 1917, Southampton). 1891 census has Hetty Banks, daughter of William (fisherman) and Elizabeth, born 1885 Itcham. Jo

[hollowayranger]

Hi thanks for replies Casalguidi

Casalguidi my late father remembers his dad( herbert) wearing the medals including the Dcm he picked it out when i showed him a book of medals he also remembers it having a pip/stud in ribbon  a boer war medal an ww1 medal france?belgium? he wasnt sure and something to do with india and yet like you say the only Herbert Henry Roberton medal card won none of these? and yet they are stated in the newspaper obitury and were seen by my father,id just love to know the true did he earn these medals did they ever exist? he changed his name so often only thing i can think of trying is to draw of soldiers who won a boer was dcm then went on to win a bar to it in ww1 then try nd track each of their lives and if i can find one that doesnt exist outside of the army that might be him? (massive long shot and i think id need to retire first to find the time to do it right).
We always knew him as herbert henry robertson born 6/6/1884 died 8/9/1953 he lived in ulcombe and kingswood kent but no trace of his birth no family names known apart from father being alexander,we think he was born Henry Thomas Robinson     born 6 June 1884 Calehill, Egerton kent father alexander its just a few miles away from ulcombe then their are the marriages at least 3 maybe 4 changing name slightly on each but enough clues to be able to follow him below is all i know see how  the name has changed im certain he did the same in army joining under age we cant find his census for 1911 either i guess he's in army under false name.

[hollowayranger]

Hi Jomcd967 I have wrote everything i have below In Two messages its a nightmare name changes lies bigamy not just by him but also by at least two of his wives 

Everything from hettie dawkins onwards we know to be true but before that ?
 
His father my great grand father
Alexander married Fanny Norris in 1882, marriage registered Hollingbourne.
They had five children:
Fanny Maria Robinson            1883 registered 3Q Hollingbourne
HENRY THOMAS ROBINSON       born 6 June 1884 Calehill, Egerton, West Ashford, Kent
Rosa Emily Robinson               1886 registered 2Q Hollingbourne
George William Robinson       1887 registered 4Q Hollingbourne
Lilly Mary Robinson                1889 registered 1Q Hollingbourne
On the 1891 census Alexander states his children are Fanny, Harry, Rose, George& Lilly... and said all were born in Lenham.
 
Alexander’s wife Fanny died aged 29, death registered 1Q 1891 Hollingbourne. Unconfirmed without certificate.
Rebecca Cuckoo (boarder/housekeeper) and her three children moved in to Alexander Robinson’s household before the 1891 census.
Alexander married Rebecca Cuckoo, marriage registered 4Q 1893 Hollingbourne.
By the 1901 census the Robinson/Cuckoo family had moved to Way Farm, Minster, Thanet.
Alexanders wife Rebecca died in 1922 aged 66. Unconfirmed without certificate.
Alexander Robertson death – there is a death registered 1944 Sittingbourne district, aged 81, which fits in with the 1863 year he was born.Unconfirmed without certificate ………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………
HENRY THOMAS ROBINSON    born 6 June 1884Calehill, Egerton
On the 1891 census he is named as “Harry”.
On the 1901 census (taken on 31 March 1901)  Henry lived in Minster, Thanet as a boarder. He said he was a farm labourer & that he was born in Lenham. He correctly stated he was 16 years old and that his name was Henry.
On 19 August 1901, Henry signed up for the Royal Sussex Regiment. On signing he falsely stated he was 18 years 1 month old, when in fact he was 17 years 2 months. He stated that he had previously served with the East Kent Militia. He stated that he was born in Minster near Ramsgate and that his parents were Alexander & Rebecca Robinson who lived at Way Minster. His tattoo was described.Was discharged on 10.3.1902.Can’t find Henry’s East Kent Militia record – keep searching. This is probably where the Boar war bit comes into it.
1st marriage???       
1911 Census: Unknown?
1914 2nd marriage Henry Herbert Thomas Robertson married Minnie Jessie Randall
Marriage 6 May 1914, registered in Tonbridge. Registry Office marriage.Henry falsely stated his age at time of marriage as 28 when he was 29. He falsely added the name Herbert& changed surname to Robertson.He falsely declared he was a bachelor(yet to be confirmed). Stated he was a gamekeeper and lived at Nettlestead Green.
witnesses j.r gasson and william h hearn fathers alexander robertson and thomas randall

Why did he suddenly change his surname & add the name Herbert?? Was it because he was committing bigamy? Why the name Herbert?
Child:   Constance Noreen Randall  born 29 April 1913Wateringbury, Kent.
Was born before the marriage. No father stated on her birth cert.
No solid proof, but have good reason to believe Henry was her father.
 
end of pt 1

[hollowayranger]

Hi Jomcd967 this is pt 2  better than eastenders! 

1917  3rd marriage  Herbert Henry Robertson married Hettie Dawkinsin December 1917
Henry falsely stated his name again, and changed it from his previous married name. Falsely stated he was a bachelor.
Falsely stated his age as 34 when it was fact 33. He stated he was a
Corporal in the R.D.C.  The marriage was registered in Southampton. Registry Office marriage
witnesses edith elgar and e phillips, fathers alexander robinson and william dawkins decesed???         

Why did Henry change his name yet again?
(Note: Hettie Dawkins appears to have been a non-divorced married woman.Probability: she was born Henrietta Banks & married James Dawkins in 1909 at Southampton. Possible child: Henrietta Dawkins  born 1910. On hersecond marriage to Henry she stated her name as Hettie Dawkins and that she was a spinster.Check 1921 census for confirmation that Henrietta Banks & James separated. Check electoral rolls when they become available on line.
Child:Joyce Beryl RobertsonBorn 1920 4Q Birling,Malling  died 1920 4Q
1920 – Henry was an army pensioner (per birth cert)
1925 Henry was living with Ella Kathleen Livingstone (nee Shepherd)
 Address: Harveys Bungalows,Winchelsea, Icklesham
(Note: Ella Kathleen Shepherd married Colin C Livingstone on 26 January 1918 and had two children colin and rodney within that marriage)
Child:   Cecil Alec Robertson born 9 November 1925 my late father. Birth reg 4Q 1925 Rye under name of Robertson/Shepherd also Birth reg 1Q 1926 Mother: Ella K Livingstone formerly Shepherd
1926 – Henry was a gamekeeper (per Cecil’s birth cert)     
1927 – Henry was a gamekeeper & army pensioner. Address Rose Cottage, Water Lane
Ulcomb, Kent (per Herbert’s birth cert)
1927 Child:   Herbert Henry Robertson   Born 2 March 1927  (nickname Harry)
Mother- stated as Hettie Robertson formerly Dawkins.
Born at Rose Cottage, Water Lane Ulcomb.Birth regHollingbourne.
1928 Child:   Peggy E Robertson   Birth reg 1928 Hollingbourne, Kent
Mother -  stated as Hettie Robertson formerly Dawkins.
1931 Child:   Honor D Robertson  Birthreg 1931 Hollingbourne, Kent
Mother -  stated as Hettie Robertson formerly Dawkins.
1936  -Henry was an Army Pensioner (per marriage cert)
we can not understand why the children are called dawkins as they were all living with elle sheppard from day one? did she use hetties name as they were living in sin and she was running away from her own first husband! 
1936 4th marriage  Herbert Henry Robinson married Ella Kathleen Shepherd
Their address was stated as 9 Upcerne Road Chelsea???for marriage only for they actually lived in ulcombe kent we believe they came up to london to get married as they didnt want any one local who knew them to know they werent actually married
witnesses phillip charles heath (my dad said this was a cousin of his died ww2 shot down in halifax bomber) ethel (cert is below hope it helps)Henry falsely stated his name. He used the same false name as he used for his third marriage. He falsely stated he was a bachelor. He correctly stated his age. Stated he was an army pensioner. Ella falsely stated that she was a spinster. Why did Henry not change his name again for this marriage? Probably couldn’t because of the children. A definite pattern of bigamy surrounded Henry Thomas Robertson.

Thats everything i have so far and as you can see confusing isnt the half of it  i hope it makes some sense? but does it ring true?   Any thoughts ideas welcome 

[mmm45]

I think you need to get a list of DCM winners in the Boer War from the West Kents see if any tie in?
The pip/stud sounds a bit like the 1914 Star Rose?

Ancestry has some Boer war medal rolls online

Ady

[hollowayranger]

Cheer mmm45

I think i tried before but the robertson and robinsons didnt match then ,i think my big plan was to search for all dcm bar winners and then try to see if any of them didnt show up pre or post war as possibles,the star rose sounds interesting i'll have to look that up ,whatever it was it was on the dcm medal pink blue pink ribbon ,ive got a copy of the south africa war honours and awards 1988-1902, and list of dcm winners 16 buffs 9 west kents none of the names look close theres also 3 east kent militia dcm.s and 15 royal sussex reg which is a new lead for me to try