early Wesleyan baptisms

[KGarrad]

I wonder about this 1603 Marriage:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11625-27501-60?cc=1769414&wc=MMVH-K42:n175019224
The opc transcriber wrote Baldwin, but it definitely says Bawden. And Wm surely is as good for Willimi as it is for William -right?

Sorry, I don't understand?
On Cornwall-OPC-Database, the marriage is:
William Bawden to Tamzin Tresmeana
Dated 31st February - just as it says in the Register!

[osprey]

with the 2 Johns baptised just over a year apart, I'd be looking for a burial of the first one, and possibly the second died as well as there's another baptism a few years later. You're back into registers in Latin, so father is William, name is given in the genitive form, meaning of William. Mother is not often noted in baptisms this early. It was only from 1813 that mother's name had to be included.

I'd say the baptisms on consecutive dates are down to transcription problems. The dates are probably in secretary hand and it can be very hard to read in registers as old as this one. The dates were not written as numbers, but in Roman numerals joined together.

I have come across twins baptised on consecutive days, when the babies aren't expected to survive. I have twins in my tree baptised the day before they were buried and their mother died 6 weeks later.

[jmusher]

Hi KGarrad
This is the one I found, so must have been transcribed with two different spellings:
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/marriages/index.php?year_from=1580&year_to=1630&parish=&forename1=forename&surname1=baldwin&multiname=0&forename2=forename&surname2=surname&forename3=forename&surname3=surname&t=marriages&bf=Search

Hi Osprey! Thanks for your help. It suddenly makes more sense knowing it is in Latin. I am guessing this is why the names are suddenly different, more formalised.  I am guessing that the records are becoming much more sparse too, meaning the marriage I found may not be the right one, even though it is the only one listed in the area at the time for a William Bawden (or variants!). Surely there were others!

If this is the right marriage, I found a birth for two  girls named Tamsin Tresmena at Gerrans which look promising http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/baptisms/index.php?year_from=1560&year_to=1590&parish=&forename1=forename&surname1=Tresmena&forename2=m&forename3=&t=baptisms&nearby=1&bf=Search

[osprey]

the scan of the register that is on FamilySearch is a copy of the original Wendron register made at a later date, in the 1730s probably, as up to then it's all in the same writing and in a regular grid. So you're looking at a transcription of a copy of the original, so plenty of scope for error.

Gerrans isn't all that close to Wendron. Don't forget that not all registers have been transcribed so there may be a more likely baptism in a nearer parish. Also, Tamsin may appear as Thomasine.

There's a Richard, son of Tamzin Trismenna, baptised 30/10/1602 in Wendron, no father given.

I can rule out the Tamsin from Gerrans, she married Roberte Keast 23/11/1596 in Gerrans.

With no standard spelling and difficulties in transcribing, if you're using the opc search,  you need to 'include similar surnames' in your search and use the minimum for first name. W will find William & Wm, a common abbreviation in parish registers.

 

[KGarrad]

Hi KGarrad
This is the one I found, so must have been transcribed with two different spellings:
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/marriages/index.php?year_from=1580&year_to=1630&parish=&forename1=forename&surname1=baldwin&multiname=0&forename2=forename&surname2=surname&forename3=forename&surname3=surname&t=marriages&bf=Search

The one I found is at  http://www.rootschat.com/links/0vyr/

Incidentally, if you scroll down to the bottom of any RC page, you will see "Shrink Link".
That's what I used to get a manageable URL!

[osprey]

just checked the sources on the opc search, the one that says Baldwin is from the register and the one that says Bawden is from Phillimore's transcription.

http://www.parishrecord.co.uk/wpp.php

There's a burial for Tampson Keast, a widow, 5/3/1614 in Gerrans, 10 years after her husband was buried.

[osprey]

Cornwall Record Office have the will of John Bawden, tinner of Wendron, date 1635 ref AP/B/871. You can get a copy from them which should help sort out surviving children and possibly some grandchildren.

http://www.cornwall.gov.uk/default.aspx?page=14713

[jmusher]

Hi again
Osprey, I was wondering why that register was so neat!
Thank you for ruling that Tamzin out. The ease with which you do that makes me a bit nervous about a later connection I put together without assistance. If I got it wrong, I need to go back a few generations and try again....
(Also, In regards to the will of John Bawden, I didnt mention that the Bawden in that generation I think was in my direct line was actually Benedictus.)

But going back to a double check of my findings....
I made the assumption that William Boden who married Anne Carpenter here:

http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=marriages&id=909913

was the child of Alexander Bowden and Joanne Thomas
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NK13-CRS
even though I could not find his birth, because the probable/possible children I found include an Alexander and Joane. Some of the children do not have a mother listed :

William baptised 5 Nov 1692
Edward b.12 Jan 1695
Thomas b 28 December 1700
Thomas 4 January 1701
Alexander 17 April 1704
Aleander 17 April 1707
Joane 22 Jun 1707

My ancestor in this generation is Edward b 1695. http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=baptisms&id=1186489
Almost all of the above are at Breage (one birth at Germoe). I realise I have also made another assumption by confidently asserting that Anne Carpenter is Edwards mother, I did this because of the date of the marriage and the other baptisms which list an Anne as mother.

I'd love it if I could be shown to be likely to be right or wrong....

Feeling a bit nervous now!


Hi KGarrad, thanks for the tip about shrinking url's
It's tricky when more than one transcription appears, but sometimes helpful too.

[osprey]

when you're getting this far back, you need as many docs as you can get. Wills can mention siblings, cousins and various other relatives. I don't think you can rely just on parish records transcriptions especially when there are gaps. If you can get to an LDS centre and order the films of the various parishes, you wouldn't be relying on someone else's transcription and could see if there are unreadable parts or years missing.