early Wesleyan baptisms

[osprey]

any idea when John was born? There's a lot of Hoskings in the area.

Is this the family in 1841?
Relubbus Lane, St Hilary HO107/144/3 folio 23 pg 10
Sam^l Hosking 25 copper miner
Eliz^th 20
Samuel 3
Eliz^th 1 ¹₂
Mary 3 months
Ann Bawden 15 female servant

[osprey]

right, got them now, I'd forgotten about your mention of Devon. I can see the remarried Elizabeth in Perranuthnoe in 1861 and this looks to be her 2nd marriage

http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=marriages&id=778302

Haven't found a baptism for her as yet, another sign that the family was non-conformist?

Her burial in Perranuthnoe

http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=burials&id=1507237

Can't see the family in St Ives, they're either in Perranuthnoe on the census or back in Relubbus Highway, St Hilary in 1871. There is another Elizabeth Oliver of around the same age, born in Perranzabuloe, married to Henry and living in St Ive, which isn't the same place as St Ives.

Think this may be the burial of Elizabeth's father John

http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=burials&id=1007053

and that of her mother

http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=burials&id=1007081

[osprey]

I should have checked the coverage, Ludgvan doesn't seem to have been transcribed in full, so from FamilySearch

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JQGV-WQX   - register shows John as tinner, tying in with marriage

This may be John's baptism

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JW7Q-F45

and I wondered about this one

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NLVH-RM9

no occupation on register to help

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11093-95288-86?cc=1769414&wc=MMVH-VQ3:n28753771

 

[jmusher]

right, got them now, I'd forgotten about your mention of Devon. I can see the remarried Elizabeth in Perranuthnoe in 1861 and this looks to be her 2nd marriage

http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=marriages&id=778302

Haven't found a baptism for her as yet, another sign that the family was non-conformist?

Her burial in Perranuthnoe

http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=burials&id=1507237

Can't see the family in St Ives, they're either in Perranuthnoe on the census or back in Relubbus Highway, St Hilary in 1871. There is another Elizabeth Oliver of around the same age, born in Perranzabuloe, married to Henry and living in St Ive, which isn't the same place as St Ives.

Think this may be the burial of Elizabeth's father John

http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=burials&id=1007053

and that of her mother

http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=burials&id=1007081

Hi Osprey,
Thanks for digging! I dont know that Elizabeths father was John!!! Other distant family came up with this:
http://boards.ancestry.co.uk/localities.britisles.england.con.general/3781.3788/mb.ashx
I wonder what her source was. I have been unable to contact the author of this, although I have found a lot of her research for the Hosking family online.

I have been looking for an Edward all along....

By looking at the replies to this post, I see that research from other Hosking relatives suggests that Samuel Hoskings parents were Samuel Hosking and Ann Bawden. For goodness sake, how terribly confusing!!! Lots and lots of connections between Bawdens and Hoskings.
 
That occupation of Sawyer for Mr Oliver fits beautifully. I know that he was a "master builder" or similar and that the Hosking family, all schoolmasters, thought she was marrying beneath herself the second time (I have a presentation given to a historical society by a descendant of John Hosking back in the 60s). So if Sawyer translates to carpenter -as I believe it does, then we have a definite hit there!


Back when I thought I was looking for an Edward... I found this which I thought was the original image for our Elizabeths birth. Using the research of the distant family member listed above as a guide, The date was 16 January 1814.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-13194-125850-60?cc=1769414&wc=MMVH-V2K:n405888829

I wonder if there is anything to it, like her father dying and the mother marrying a brother. With no source, I suppose it doesn't really hold water, and needs to be discounted.

I found the marriage of William Bawden and Ann of Breage that you mention, he is listed as a Tinner, so the basic occupation fits... I will have a look for their other children, and see if I can find anything more conclusive.
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=marriages&id=907992

Family search has crashed here for some reason, so I hope the links I have posted work.

[osprey]

I gave you Elizabeth's marriage, her father's name is on there, John, a miner. Samuel Hosking, like his father, was a blacksmith, again on the marriage record, and he is shows as a pauper on the 1851 census, so I think marrying beneath herself is a bit strong. Where are you getting this info from? You'd be better off looking at contemporary records.

This is a transcription of Samuel's baptism

http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=baptisms&id=1331401

You can access a scan of some original records here

https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/show#uri=http://www.familysearch.org/searchapi/search/collection/1769414

Sam's baptism in St Hilary, abode noted as Goldsithney in the parish of Perranuthnoe
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-13194-128313-80?cc=1769414&wc=MMVH-V2K:n405888829

John was not a master builder, he shows up on the census as a mine carpenter
1861 Goldsithney RG9/15941 folio 87 pg 23
John Oliver head mar 38 mine carpenter & sawyer b. Newlyn East
Elizabeth wife 42 b. Ludgvan
William Hosking son-in-law 18 copper, tin & lead miner b. Perranuthnoe
John Hosking son-in-law 14 copper, tin & lead miner b. Devonshire, Ashburton
John Oliver son 10 b. Newlyn East
James Oliver son 7 b. Newlyn East
son-in-law was used at that time as we would now use step-son

Hosking family in 1851
Great Bridge, Ashburton HO107/1871 folio 331 pg 36
Samuel Hosking  head mar 36 (pauper) blacksmith b. Cornwall, St Perran
Elizabeth wife 34 b. Ludgvan
Samuel son 13 b. Ludgvan
Elizabeth Ann dau 11 b. St Perran
Mary dau 10 b. St Hillary
William son 8 b. Devon, Ashburton
John son 4 b. Ashburton

The baptism you have for Elizabeth is too early. I haven't checked relationships, but you need to remember that Hosking is a very common name in the area, and the mother wouldn't have married her brother-in-law, it was illegal and didn't become legal until 1905 or thereabouts.

Marriage for Samuel Hosking & Ann Bawden

http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=marriages&id=553001

Pretty sure I didn't mention a marriage in Breage for William & Ann. I suspect it is this one

http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=marriages&id=343903

The register entry giving William as junior suggests his father was called William as well. Also, the register shows William as a tinner.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11093-96647-81?cc=1769414&wc=MMVH-VQF:n484473889

Hope some of this helps.

[jmusher]

Thanks for clarifying things for me. The info I had was a transcript of a lecture given by an descendant of John Hosking to a historical society in the 1960's. She was elderly, and these were the memories of her conversations with her father. No doubt the stories got a bit skewed over time.

I dont know how I managed to come up with Breage for that marriage . William Bawden and Ann Hoskin (!)

Your research has cleared up a lot of wrongs turns, thankyou.

The marriage for Samuel Hosking and Ann Bawden lists William Bawden as a witness.
Tantalising possibility that this is our Williams father and Anns father as well... maybe? I wonder could this be where the main connection is rather than with Elizabeth/Betsey?

I wonder if he was given a Wesleyan Baptism later, as the immigration application says that his baptism was "certified 5 April 1800"  as per our conversation with krisesjoint back in February:

Hi Jodie and Osprey,

Application for Assisted travel lists

William BAWDEN of Marizon [sic] Cornwall, the son of William BAWDEN of the same place, Mine Agent.

William BAWDEN was aged 39 years in April 1838 baptism certified 5 Apr 1800 St  (Image included, and moved to general board for viewing)
Henry FRANCIS, Paul HANCOCK and William CRAPP (all of Wheal Virgin) certified to him being of very good Character.
Calling Engineer
His health was very good,
Religion Wesleyan,
He could read and write

Mary H BAWDEN aged 40 years on the 23 July 1838, a native of Marizon, [sic] daughter of John and Martha WILLIAMS of St Hillary, farmer
Calling - always assisted with her parents farm
baptisms certified 12 Aug 1798 by Thos [BISSIN]? Vicar
no certificate of character
health good
Religion C of E
Could read and write

Child Thomas aged 6 years on the 24 Oct 1838 (no certificate)

Australian Town and Country Journal 27 Feb 1897, list Thomas as from Pembrokeshire

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/71290453

Cheers Kris 

[osprey]

that's certainly a possible relationship, or William & Ann could be brother and sister or cousins.

Copy of the register entry here

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-22653-50224-80?cc=1769414&wc=MMVH-VLX:2010891349

It may be the same signature as as on the marriage in 1792. It's not the same as the witness William Bawden from the 1792 marriage.

There's no knowing if William was baptised in the C of E as a baby. It wouldn't have stopped him becoming a Methodist later. One set of my gggrandparents were both baptised in the C of E, so I was a bit thrown by their burials being in unconsecrated ground, but it would seem they became Methodists at some stage, rather than being brought up in the denomination.

Perranuthnoe does seem to be a likely area. There are certainly Bawdens in the parish and if you search for the surname Bawden in 'Any Text' and Perranuthnoe in 'Title', you'll see that the record office have various documents includung some wills.

http://crocat.cornwall.gov.uk/DServe/searchpage.htm

possible family in 1841 census
Perranuthnoe HO107/143/11 folio 26 pg 21
Samuel Wearn 25 mason
Ann Wearn 25
William Bawden 70 ind
Ann Bawden 70 ind
Edward Bawden 15 mason
all born in county

[osprey]

have a look at this marriage record for an Edward Bawden in Breage in 1825. I'm pretty sure it's the the same person as witnesses William's marriage in 1821, and looks like William returned the favour.

 

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11785-114403-61?cc=1769414&wc=MMVH-JS2:487895306

[jmusher]

You are an absolute legend Osprey!!! 
I have seen the record now, it looks very possible doesnt it?
Interestingly, there is a Bawden/Austin connection in the family that I know about...
Could we (you) maybe.... just maybe have found them??? (!!!)