Thomas CARLYLE

[pharmaT]

Have only just seen this post.

My daughter's 6x Grt Grandparents were Francis Carlyle and Jane Seaton/Siton.  They married at New Abbey in 1826.  When Francis died in Merthyr Tidfil in 1882 his family claimed that he was the second cousin of Thomas Carlyle.  I have not yet established a definite connection, nor have I manged to disprove the claim.

[elaine gray]

Hi there, I've read all the messages re the carlyle family. I'm looking for the parents of Mary, born c 1811. She married William Moffat and had 6 kids. First dgt was isabella (so I'm thinking her mum was isabella). There was Mary, William, John and James. She died after 1844, that's when her youngest was born. She was about mid 30s when she died. All her children were born in Kilpatrick Fleming, Dumfries-shire. I've never found a marriage cert William and Mary. Maybe a visit to the local cemeteries would be an option. She does show as Williams wife on the Moffat geno site.
Any ideas welcome
Elaine

[Neale1961]

Hello Elaine,  A couple of thoughts:
•   The first child (Isabella) was born in Annan 1832, so this may have been where the marriage was. Unfortunately the kirk sessions for Annan for the relevant years are not available.
•   I can only see 5 children on the 1841 census and have found birth records for three. A reminder that on the 1841 census, ages were rounded down, so parents Mary and William Moffat were quite possibly older than 30 at that census, ie born before 1810
•   I notice that the son James born in 1841 has the second name IRVING. This might be significant and give some leads to earlier generations. For example, there are a few births between a CARLYLE father and IRVING Mother in the Annan and Middlebie area in the early 1800s, including this one for a Mary.


CARLYLE   MARY   
02/02/1806      Middlebie
parents: JOHN CARLYLE  /   JEAN IRVING
FR76 (FR76)   841/    10 69

[elaine gray]

Morning, that's for your reply.
To clarify, are the Annan records not available online or are they totally non existent? Would be happy to go to Annan if I could see them there
Yes, James Irving Moffat was my gt grandad. I have looked at the records trying to see where Irving fits in with this couple. I've also tried to find death for Mary Moffat nee carlyle, hoping to see exact age. No joy there either.
Onwards upwards....
Elaine

[Neale1961]

Sorry, I didn't make myself clear.
I looked at the Kirk Sessions for Annan wondering if there might be a mention of a Moffat - Carlyle marriage in the 1830-1831 period. Unfortunately there is a gap in these kirk session minutes between 1826 and 1834.

[Forfarian]

To clarify, are the Annan records not available online or are they totally non existent? Would be happy to go to Annan if I could see them there.

There is almost never any point in going on spec to the place where early records were generated, because next to none of them will still be held there.

The Church of Scotland registers of baptism, marriage and burials are held by the Registrar General for Scotland in New Register House in Edinburgh, and the contents have been digitised and indexed and can be viewed on Scotland's People (SP). You can see a detailed list of what registers have survived at https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/research/guides/old-parish-registers/list-of-old-parish-registers

Many registers of dissenting and free churches are held in the National Records of Scotland (NRS). Most of these have been digitised and are available on SP under 'Other churches'. You can search to see if a particular congregation's records have survived but not been digitised by going to  https://catalogue.nrscotland.gov.uk/nrsonlinecatalogue/search.aspx, typing the name of the congregation in the 'Search for' box and 'CH3' in the 'Reference' box.

The Church of Scotland's Kirk Session (KS) records are almost all in the NRS, and many of them have been digitised and can be viewed on SP. To find out which Church of Scotland KS records have survived, including those that have yet to be made available online, go to https://catalogue.nrscotland.gov.uk/nrsonlinecatalogue/search.aspx, type 'Kirk Session' in the 'Search for' box and 'CH2' in the reference box. If you want to know whether the KS records of a specific parish have survived, add the parish name in the 'Search for' box.

The same search, using CH3 instead of CH2, will produce a list of KS records of dissenting churches held in the NRS.

The Roman Catholic records are not held by NRS, but they have been digitised and are available on SP.

If SP and NRS don't have the records you are looking for, or if you are looking for Episcopalian, Methodist, Congregational, Jewish, Quaker or other minor denominations, try the Scottish Archive Network https://www.scan.org.uk/ to see if they are held in a local or university archive.

Local archives should know if there are any surviving documents held elsewhere. For Annan, start with https://www.dumgal.gov.uk/article/15308/Local-archives

[elaine gray]

Thanks for info, that's interesting.
I was just about to reply to previous message. I've found Mary, dgt of John carlyle and jean Irving. She was still living at home in the census aged 42, single!!
So away for another search. There's a carlyle/Irving marriage a generation back which I will look at. Thanks again

Elaine