Marriage of William Anderson Temple & Dorothy Robson c1861

[Tyne Traveller]

Yes Michael. The lack of ditto marks crossed my mind too - I was reluctant to make this any more complicated!

The 16 month theory fits in well with the birth certificate I have for Dorothy junior's son born 26 Nov 1859.

Incidentally, just to throw a further spanner in the works. The second child shown on the 1871 census for William and Dorothy is a Jane Temple, born about 1862-3, calculated from the census. As in Edward's case, I cannot find a suitable birth record for a Jane Temple, but there are several possibles for a Jane Robson.

 Could Dorothy have had two illeg. children before she and William became respectable? If so, their marriage may be as late as 1864-ish. Their next child was Elizabeth born about 1865-66. Trouble is, all of these names are very common in the area and without buying multiple certificates it's hard to establish the right one. There is more than one possible Elizabeth Temple birth.

These three were followed by another William Anderson Temple b.1870, James b.1871 (great grandpa Jimmy) and Catherine Jane b.1875-76, all of which I can trace pretty well.

The obsession with the name Jane comes from William Anderson Temple's mother, Jane Spark, later Temple, later Atkinson.

I'm wittering now, but if you want any more info let me know - I've been beating my head against a brick wall with this family for years now!

[Michael Dixon]

 Janet,
 
 The "rules" of the English Naming Pattern, would have William name his first son " William" after his
 own father. The couple's first dtr would have been named Dorothy, after Dorothy jnr's mother.
 Second son to be named after Dorothy's dad, John. Second dtr named after William's mother Jane.

Third son would have been named after the father of the child. But William/Dorothy had already "used up " the name William , so they would have used the name of William's oldest brother ie  "James". Then next son, if a one, named after Dorothy's oldest brother !

 But with having and naming a child,Edward  before William and Dorothy were together, they sort of messed up the "pattern.   Or they may have disregarded ENP, although it did not start going out of fashion until latter part of C19th.

Michael

[Tyne Traveller]

Yes, I found a similar thing a while ago for Irish names. Same pattern and if there is a fourth son and daughter they are named after the father's eldest brother and mother's eldest sister.

(Because I have three generations of William Anderson Temple that I know about I will start calling them William 1 b.1807, William 2 b.1835 (did I mention I can't find his birth record either?!) and William 3 b.1870)

I don't think the Temples were strictly traditional. In naming Edward John, the second name could be after Dorothy's dad, but I don't know what the attraction of Edward is. Jane is after William 2's mother. No idea about Elizabeth. William Anderson 3 is named after William 2 or more likely after William 1 since he is the first legitimate son. James could be named after William 2's oldest brother or after his grandfather.

William Anderson Temple 1 called his four sons (in age order) James Henry, Reuben E, William Anderson and John. James is after his father. No idea where the others come from since I haven't gone further back, except that 2 of William 1's brothers were Henry and John.

William 2's brothers used familiar names:
James Henry called his son Reuben Henry
Reuben called his children John and Dorothy Ann
John had Jane, Ellen (after his wife) and Edward Hugh

It seems there is a lot of naming after siblings rather than using strict conventions.

It's fun but is this getting us anywhere Michael? I hope you are not as confused as I am!

Janet

[Michael Dixon]

 No not getting anywhere !  But I am getting somewhere tomorrow- Tyne & Wear Archives.

 To look at that William Temple/Margaret Robson marriage in S t John's, 1863- to see what the score was !

 Michael

[Tyne Traveller]

Michael. Thanks you so much for your time and effort - I hope I'm not taking you away from important research into your own family.

Just one little thing to add which might or might not be important. When I looked up the marriage index for the 1863 marriage the FindMyPast Marriagefinder gave two other male names for 3Q 1863 Newcastle apart from William Temple and only two female names in total - someone hasn't got a partner!

Good Luck today!

Janet.

[Michael Dixon]

  Marriages at St John the Baptist for the year of 1863 were split over two films.

  I first tried the film that included the latter part of the year....

~~~~~~~~------------------------
 "26 Nov 1863
   Edward Temple full age, bachelor, draper, of Horton, Northumberland, father Edward Temple, teacher.
   Sarah Ann Stuart, full age,spinster,  of this parish, father Joseph Stuart, cabinet maker.

   Witnesses William Harcroft/Mary Stuart
  ( the four participants all made good signatues)         "
--------------------------------------------------------------------

 ... then onto film that covered start of 1863......

 "27 Sep 1863,

  William Temple full age, bachelor, plumber, of this parish, father Thomas Temple, smith.
  Margaret Robson, full age, spinster, of this parish, father, operative chemist.

  Witnesses  Ralph Robson/ Elizabeth Robson.

  (all four made good signatures)  "
~~~~~~~~---------------------------------------------

  "4 Oct 1863
  William Temple  20 yrs bachelor, smith, Chester-le-Street parish, father John Temple, vetinary
  Eleanor Crofton, 22 yrs, spinster, of this parish, father John Crofton, gardener

  Witnesses John Findley/John Bennett

  (all four made good signature )

~~~~~~~~----------------------------------

 So no joy with these events. The Newcastle Register Office web site pointed me at St John's for the Temple
 marriage(s).

 I think Hanover St and Diana St were within St John's parish, but close to borders with St Andrew's and All Saints !

 Michael

[Tyne Traveller]

Hi Michael. Hope you enjoyed your trip to the Archives. I really appreciate the effort you are putting into this and hope it bears fruit!

As you say, none of these Temples is mine as far as I know. My William was a file cutter/maker/hardener, except for a brief time in 1871 when he was a railway porter, probably because he couldn't get the work as a file maker.

He didn't do all that well for his family from the looks of things. in the 1881 census he was an out of work file hardener and the family were living in the Wesleyan Mission Rooms in Buckingham Street. He died in 1898 of alcoholic dementia and asthenia.

Re parishes - in 1861 when William was still with his mother and brothers they were living in Hanover street which is described on some censuses as being in St John and in others as St Nicholas. Dorothy's family seem to have been well established around Diana Street by then which I think is St John. The nearest church is St Phillip's just west of Diana Street.

I wish I was closer to do some of this hunting around Parish Records and Archives. Unfortunately, all my research to date has been on-line since I am hundreds of miles away in the North of Scotland. Still - who knows what may happen in the future!

Best wishes, Janet.