John McGregor and Mary Fisher from Balquhidder

[5sisters]

hi, I think I have gotten back to Janet b1810 2nd daughter of John and Janet McGregor in your last section , but im a wee bit confused as to who Hugh Bans parents would be, any help would be fab .

[John Andrew Hutchison]

Hi,

Janet [bap. 1810] was my ancestor's neighbour, (they lived at Cuilearn).

This is what I have for her family based on census records, death certificates, and the parish register;

1798 John + Janet [clandestine marriage]
1800 Janet Easter Achtu [died before 1810]
1802 Hugh Easter Achtu [married Mary Hustin/Austin 1832, lived in South Knapdale]
1804 John Easter Achtu [lived in Balquhidder with his mother's sisters and his children]
1807 Robert Middle Achtu
1810 Janet Middle Achtou [married John Ferguson, lived in Balquhidder]
1813 Margaret Achtu [lived in Glasgow]
1819 Duncan Auchleskine [lived with brother Hugh + Mary Hustin/Austin]

Janet's mother Janet was almost certainly the daughter of Robert and Margaret McLaren;
1774 Robert + Margaret McLaren
1775 Hugh Easter Auchtoo
1777 Janet Achtowmore [married John McGregor 1798, lived in Balquhidder]
1779 Mary Auchlone [lived in Balquhidder with her nephew]
1781 John Auchtowmore
1783 Margaret Auchtowmore
1785 James Wester Auchtan [died before 1788]
1787 Elizabeth Auchtowmore  [lived in Balquhidder with her nephew]
1788 James

Her husband John might have been the son of Hugh ban and Janet McIntyre, but that was just my guess, based on the names of their children, and where they lived. There is no real evidence for it, nor evidence of who Hugh ban was. It is odd, however, that the Statistics of the Annexed Estates 1755-56 lists three Hugh McGregors all owning land in the same place, (Hugh senior, Hugh junior, and Hugh ban). I think this indicates that they were related, and their common ancestor once owned all three parts of Easter Auchtubh. Maybe junior was the son of senior, and ban was their cousins. Maybe all three were cousins. If so, and if John was the son of Hugh ban, John and Janet would have been cousins, but that wasn't so unusual back then. To add to the confusion, there was another Hugh, the younger, who had a family between 1728 and 1746. He moved from Easter Auchtubh to Kilmahog.

There is more information about Janet's father Robert in Amelia MacGregor's history of Clan Gregor. He appears to be descended from a branch of the clan which used the name Puidrac, taken from the name of the standing stone in Auchleskine. If you're interested I can post the Puidrac family information.

John.

[5sisters]

thanks for replying , I will take a good look at this ,it can all get quite confusing,  this is my husbands family and when you get this far back ,as you say lots of it is guess work,  matching children's names which conveniently they were pretty consistent with ,right down to the latest  generation . I must say his mothers maiden name of Marquis was infinitely easier than the Ferguson/McGregors. .thanks again

[5sisters]

yes please post the other bits if its no trouble . sometimes things just fall in to place when you go back to them.

[John Andrew Hutchison]

So, in Amelia MacGregor's History of Clan Gregor, Chapter XVIII, The Death of Drummondernoch, she publishes several statements made by Robert, which were passed down through his family about the murder of John Drummond of Drummondernoch in 1589;

1813 - Robert McGregor from his father Hugh McGregor - Robert MacGregor in Middle Achtow one of the Elders of the Parish of Balquhidder aged sventy [sic] four, being solemnly sworn and examined on oath Depones that he is the sixth generation of Macgregors who have lived in Achtow. That his father was born in 1701 and lived to the age of 77...that his great grandfather by his father's side was a son of the daughter of the Lady Ardvorlich who was distracted and ran off to the hill as before mentioned, and who was sister of the Forrester so put to death.

1817 - Robert MacGregor an elder of the Parish of Balquhidder in which his Grand-Father & Great grandfather were also elders...

The fact that he gives his age, and that he has always lived in Achtow, means that this is almost certainly Janet's father Robert. It also confirms that Robert is the son of Hugh Drummond senior, and it gives Hugh's date of birth and death.

When he says he is the sixth generation of MacGregors who have lived in Achtow it got me thinking, I would expect to find his ancestors in some of the other material in Amelia's History. In particular, in the proscription after the death of Drummondernoch in 1589, because that lists all adult male members of the clan. The only entry for the area around the kirktown of Balquhidder is;

Alexander Pudrach MacGregor under the Laird of Weyme.

Amelia references this to an earlier proscription in 1586 of Allester pudrech MacGregor from Huidder under the Laird of Weyme, and she makes the connection of the alias pudrech to the Puidrac stone in Auchleskine.

So, I looked for all references of this alias, and I found the following;

1581 Allester Pudreauch McGregour
1586 Allester pudrech MacGregor (from Balquhidder 'huidder')
1588 Allester Pudrach alias MacGregour pretendit occupiar of part of the landis of Innercharney, removed from the lands.
1589 Alexander Pudrach MacGregor (from Balquhidder)
1590 Allaster Pudrach McGregor
1591 Allaster Pudrach MacGregor (from Balquhidder)
1595 Allester Makgregour alias Puddrache pretendit Tennent of Ardcaskard, removed [presumably in Fortingall Parish]
1598 Duncan McGregour, Margaret Stewart Relict of Alexander Pudrych, Duncan McGregour his sone, Allester McGregour, Malcolm McCoullcheir, Helen McGregour Relict of umqle Robert Stewart
1600 Ewne McAllaster Pudrach (the eldest brother)
1600 Duncan McAllaster quhiddrache [of Bal-quhidder] VcGregor witness (Pudrach).
1601 Duncane McAllaster pudryche, (Pudrach) umquhile Allaster pudryche his father
1602 Ewne McAllaster Pudrach
1603 Neill Makgregor pudrenois
1603 Dougall McGregour, Neill McGregour pudrach hanged
1604 Duncan Pudrache Macgregour hanged
1604 Duncane McAllester Pudriche in Achatue hanged and quartered
1649 John McEwin VcAlaster phudrach in [] sonne to Kallum McGregor in Culchra
1649 John dow McAlaster pudrach

Which I think makes this tree, (the numbers are the generation born in Balquhidder);

Alistair ~1540 d. ~ 1598 m. Margaret Stewart
|-1-Duncan ~ 1570 (hanged 1604)
|-1-Neil ~ 1570 (hanged 1603)
'-1-Ewen (the eldest brother) ~ 1570
    |-2-John Dow ~ 1600
    '-2-Kallum in Culchra ~ 1600
        '-3-John ~ 1630

This needs to be joined to the tree from the Parish Register;

        '-3-? ~ 1630
            '-4-?  ~ 1660
                '-5-Hugh b ~ 1701, d ~ 1778
                    '-6-Robert bap 1742

If Robert's great-grandfather [3] was a son of the sister of John Drummond of Drummondernochabt, who was killed in 1589, then the dates don't match. Maybe the family memory is off by a generation, and he was Robert's great-great-grandfather [2].

There is also a testament dated 18/8/1687 for the deceased John McGrigor in Easter Achtow. It's difficult to read, but I think the only other bit of information in it is his wife's name, Eliz[ab]eth Leran. He could be John [3] above.

The other Hughs need to be fitted into this tree. In particular, Hugh the younger [Hugh og]. He must have been born around 1700, and his name suggests he was the son of a Hugh or Ewen born around 1660. This Hugh could have been a brother or cousin to Robert's grandfather.

John.

[John Andrew Hutchison]

I meant to add that Amelia's History also has a list of the Houses of Clan Gregor, dated to before 1598. It has Alester Pudrayt McGregour as a principal householder. So, his branch of the clan is a distinct offshoot.

John.

[5sisters]

Thanks very much John.

[Skoosh]

Pudrach (powdery?) mentioned here,

     http://glendiscovery.co.uk/the-wicked-clan-gregor.html

Skoosh.

[John Andrew Hutchison]

I don't think it is known what the name of the stone means. It could be Gaelic, or Pictish. Here's an article on it, with speculation about the meaning of the name, and reference to the fact that people from Balquhidder used it as an alias. It also mentions some of the MacGregors above.

http://www.thedinniestones.com/Articles%20of%20Interest/The%20Puterach%20and%20Pudrac%20Stones.pdf

John.