Birth Records

[sarcy]

Hi all,
I couldnt really find a relevent area to put this under so i hope this is sufficient.
Just a general question really regarding births and marriages in 1800's. I have found amongst my recent research a couple of instances where a child is given their mothers maiden name at birth.
for example.
Elizabeth Louisa Gravestock (later Crawley) Who was born in the apr Qtr of 1871 to Walter Crawley and Louisa Gravestock whom also married in the apr qtr of 1871 (unsure if this was before or after her birth though)
and more significantly
Frederick George Stapleton bn in 1868, parents i believe are Charles Walker and Mary Ann Stapleton married 1871. This is the one that causes me the most confusion, as Frederick went on to use the name Walker.
 Is it likely that Charles was his father even though they didnt marry till 3 years later?
If Charles was Frederick's father why would they have waited 3 years before getting married, i have come across many an illigitimate child but the parents always seemed to get married very close to the birth.
and lastly
was is common practice for the child to be given the mothers maiden name in the case of unmarried parents, even though the father was known and they later marry?

hope this makes sense, i will most probably obtain a birth certificate to confirm the father of Frederick but in the mean time it would be nice to know if anyone has any knowledge on this as i find it strange that the mothers maiden name was used so frequently in this situation when it isnt as much today?

Many thanks
Sarah

[danuslave]

Hi Sarah

As far as I know, a child born out of wedlock is always given the mother's surname unless the father admits paternity.  Nowadays, the father would actually have to be present at the registration for his name to appear on the birth certificate.

Frederick George Stapleton bn in 1868, parents i believe are Charles Walker and Mary Ann Stapleton married 1871. This is the one that causes me the most confusion, as Frederick went on to use the name Walker.
Is it likely that Charles was his father even though they didnt marry till 3 years later?
If Charles was Frederick's father why would they have waited 3 years before getting married

If Mary Ann was unmarried (to anyone) when Frederick was born, he would be registered as Stapleton.  The birth certificate may well not show a father's name.  Unless there is a name, you will have no way of knowing if Charles was his father

When Mary Ann married Charles he obviously took on Frederick as his step-son.  As he was only 3, it was probably easier to use Charles' surname for Frederick, especially if more children were born later.

I have seen instances where children continue to use their birth surnames, even though they are part of the new family

If Charles really was Frederick's father, he may already have been married to someone else, so he and Mary Ann had to wait until his first wife died or they were divorced (much less likely in the late 1800s)

If you find a marriage certificate for Frederick it is likely to show Charles as his father.  This is not proof that he was the birth father, just that he was the man Frederick knew as Dad!   

Linda

[sarcy]

Hi Linda,
Thank you for your reply, pretty much sums up what i had kind of thought.
I have found who i think to be Charles living with his parents still in 1871 census (he didnt marry Mary Ann till nov 1871) if this is him then his father was George. Fredericks middle name was George, i suppose this could point towards him having been given his grandfathers name.
I have searched and searched for both Mary Ann Stapleton and Frederick George in the 1871 census to no avail, this could help in confirming whether she was previously married or not, although the fact that Charles appears to be living with his parents still in 1871 would suggest that he was not already married.
I find it quite incredible how many children i have come across that are born out of wedlock, my nan always frowns on it as a 'modern' thing but it happened a hell of a lot in those days as well.

Regards
Sarah

[carol8353]

Here's what you would expect to find on a birth cert.

http://home.clara.net/dixons/Certificates/births.htm

With the rules of how it should be written if the parents weren't married.

[Nick29]

If Charles was Frederick's father why would they have waited 3 years before getting married.....

Maybe Charles was married to someone else, and his wife died after 3 years ?   Divorce was a difficult and expensive business in those days.

[danuslave]

I find it quite incredible how many children i have come across that are born out of wedlock, my nan always frowns on it as a 'modern' thing but it happened a hell of a lot in those days as well.

In some areas it was seen almost as a requirement that women were at least pregnant when they married.  It showed they could actually have children!

You'll soon learn that it's generally pointless to look for a wedding at least 9 months before the first child is born.  In some cases, it can be years (and several children) later   

It all adds to the fun!

Linda

[danuslave]

I have searched and searched for both Mary Ann Stapleton and Frederick George in the 1871 census to no avail

If you would like some help, tell us everything you know about them and we'll see what we can do   

Linda

[carol8353]

My great grandparents married in 1914..............21 years after the first of their 10 children were born 

They had no reason NOT to marry before that,they just never got round to it!


Carol

[sarcy]

Thankyou all for your invaluable information, it really is interesting. As a rule the majority of my family research has been straighforward and as i would expect to find it. This on the other hand has thrown up some things i wouldnt expect to find.

Linda, Any assistance would be great as i have searched everything i can think of and found nothing. a fresh set of eyes might just bring the answers, so details are...

Frederick George Stapleton (later Walker) I found birth his Jul qtr 1868 hemel hempstead (3a 385)
Mary Ann Stapelton married Charles Walker oct qtr 1871 Hemel Hemspstead

the only Charles Walker (bn c1851 hemel hempstead) that fits the bill in 1871 is living with parents George and Caroline and siblings.

obviously if Frederick was born in 1868 then he should be somewhere in 1871 and i cannot find him or Mary Ann

according to the 1891 census Mary Ann living with Charles and children, She was aged 43 (born c1848) in Hemel Hempstead.
This is about all i can tell you about her as i have found no birth around that time of a Mary Ann Stapleton, nor a marriage to a stapleton at a later date.
I dont think i have been able to find her on earlier census either.

Any help anyone can offer would be wonderful,

Many Many Thanks
Sarah