McGrath Family New Zealand

[sandy feet]

Hello All,

I am not sure of what to think of Margaret Adams being listed as mother. This woman had that  many names, either through alias's or translation errors, she is hard to keep track of. It would appear from all the research that our families are one and the same. Did she remarry or shack up with a block after Peter's death and take his name ?
 I would like to investigate if it was Margaret Anne (Beatrice)  who was in the convent and in turn what she did between the age of 13 and turning up in Townsville and marrying a Dentist.

Regards Sandy

[Lucy2]

Thanks for your kind words (earlier) , Julie.   
-----------------

Re: Marriage record transcription - Maurice McGRATH / Sarah Jane OAKMAN - Ref: 1893 / 7091 (at your reply # 90 ) which proved to be so disappointing.

The following thread on the Australian board though, seems to give hope that a church record may provide additional information ?

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=546609.0
"NSW Historic Marriage Certificates with Blanks"
[I've only skimmed over that thread ... but pages 1 and 2 - and an update on page 8 - appear to be pertinent. ]

My suggestion would be that you start a new topic on the AUS board along the lines of "seeking historic Presbyterian marriage records" (the folk on the board there will be able to give you assistance I'm sure.) 

Although Maurice's marriage possibly took place at a private residence (Simmons Street, Wagga Wagga), the officiating minister was the Rev. J. MacINTYRE.

An 1890 newspaper reference (at TROVE) shows that Rev. J. (John ?) MacINTYRE was the incumbant at St. Andrews Presbyterian Church, Wagga.


  ~  Lu

[sandy feet]

Hello All,

I found a Trove doc -  New South Wales, Australia, Government Gazettes, 1853-1899 for Miss Margaret McGrath retiring from the Public Service Board as a teacher in 1899. She was teaching at Rhine Falls Public School out near the Snowy Mountains.  This may not be our Margaret Ann (Beatrice) McGrath but I have made a few assumptions. Firstly right up until the 1960s women about to marry had to resign from the post of teaching so this may have been a resignation and not a retirement. By the time of Margaret and Frank Rogers marriage in 1901 they were living in townsville so she may have met Dentist Frank out in this community, become engaged and moved to Townsville. Does anyone know how to find out where Frank Rogers was practicing Dentistry in NSW. ( When he moved to Townsville he called his practice Sydney Dental )
One of Margaret Jane's 6 children ended up in a convent in Sydney, from what I know about the other siblings it appears that Margaret Ann ( Beatrice would but the most likely. If she was schooled by the nuns she would have likely have got a good education for the time and possibly an avenue into a teaching Career. In here later life she also ran several busineses which implies she was educated. Regards Sandy

[Lucy2]

Hi Sandy

.... will reply to your post # 117 shortly.   

   ~  Lu

[Lucy2]

I am not sure of what to think of Margaret Adams being listed as mother. This woman had that  many names, either through alias's or translation errors, she is hard to keep track of.

Hi Sandy
 
I wouldn't be too concerned about this (Margaret) ADAMS name cropping up. 
It sometimes happened that a person didn't know the maiden name of their mother and simply guessed at it ... or even made up a name !  [One of my "lot", birth not registered but baptism found > was twice married, 25 years between weddings > got his mother's christian and maiden names wrong on both occasions (she had died when he was 5). It wasn't until I got his death cert. that the mother's name appeared correctly.  ]

Given the newspaper Court report of April 1885, Margaret McGRATH was probably living apart from husband Peter and son Maurice has acted as informant to his death (possibly without consulting with mother Margaret ??).   Of course Maurice again gives "ADAMS" as maiden name at his 1937 marriage (details from his 1893 and 1932 marriages are unknown at this point.)   And then once more the ADAMS name appears on Maurice's own death cert. (1945) - but likely this was taken from info on his last marriage certificate ?

I think there is sufficient "official" documentation now though, to assume that Margaret McGRATH's maiden name was TURNER. 

   ~  Lu

[Lucy2]

SUMMARY of documents held for McGRATH family :

*  1866 - Marriage at Hokitika NZ - Peter McGRATH to Matilda McCOY
[Note:   Limited information recorded for NZ marriages in this era.   Matilda's maiden name was not shown on the marriage certificate.

*  1866 -  Birth of Maurice McGRATH at Hokitika NZ.  Parents shown as Peter McGRATH and Matilda McGRATH formerly TURNER.
[Note:   By 1873 (birth of Thomas McGRATH) Matilda is using the christian name "Margaret" / "or Margaret Jane". ] 

*  1875 - Birth of Margaret Anne McGRATH at Christchurch NZ.   Parents:  Peter McGRATH and Margaret Jane McGRATH formerly TURNER.
[Note:  Margaret Anne McGRATH appears to be the person later known as "Margaret Beatrice McGRATH" (m. Frank ROGERS - Townsville, AUS, 1901) ]

*  1877 - Birth of Peter Stephen McGRATH at Rangiora NZ.    Parents:   Peter McGRATH and Margaret McGRATH formerly TURNER.
[Note:   This birth was registered at Rangiora by Margaret McGRATH, mother of the child. ]

*  1877 - Baptism (Roman Catholic) of Margaret McGRATH (alias TURNER), Mrs Peter MCGRATH"
at Rangiora.

OTHER

*   1873 - Birth registered in NZ of Thomas McGRATH - s/o Peter McGRATH and Margaret Jane McGRATH :
[Note:  We know from a funeral notice and burial details, that a son of Peter and Margaret McGRATH named Thomas, died at Sydney in 1885 aged 12 years, shortly after the death of his father. ]

*  1885 (April) - at Sydney:  Margaret McGRATH has her husband Peter, a contractor, arrested for desertion.   Their sons, named as Maurice and John, testify in court as to their father's good character.

*  1888 (October) - at Sydney:   A Peter McGRATH said to be aged ten and born in New Zealand, is arrested for theft and appears before the Water Police Court.   The police summary names his mother as Margaret McGRATH, a widow who has 4 other children - 2 working, one in a convent, plus a daughter and son (presumably Peter) who live with her. 
[Note:   Whilst the date of birth given for Peter McGRATH (jnr) is inconsistent with that shown on his NZ birth certificate, details supplied by his mother Margaret, (her widowhood, number of children) fit with what is recorded on the 1885 death cert. of Peter McGRATH (contractor) and the knowledge that one of her children was also deceased by 1888.  ] 

{Note 2 :   Margaret McGRATH was said to have given testimony when her son Peter appeared before the Water Police Court on or about 31 October 1888, so it is to be assumed that this was the name she was using up to, and at that date ? }

  ~  Lu

Edit:   Apologies for the excess "bolding" in above text - have endeavoured to correct it, but to no avail (have a cranky, slow-moving computer at present.  Grrr ! )

[Lucy2]

By the time of Margaret and Frank Rogers marriage in 1901 they were living in townsville so she may have met Dentist Frank out in this community, become engaged and moved to Townsville. Does anyone know how to find out where Frank Rogers was practicing Dentistry in NSW. ( When he moved to Townsville he called his practice Sydney Dental )

Hi Sandy

It looks very much as if Frank ROGERS was resident in Townsville a number of years prior to his marriage.

At TROVE:  see "The Northern Miner" (Charters Towers, QLD) - 4 March 1897 - page 3 :

... In re: Frank ROGERS of Townsville, Dentists  ... petition for insolvency ....

  ~  Lu

PS:   Will add tomorrow, further info for Margaret McGRATH (school teacher).

[majm]

Marriage Certificate for Maurice McGrath & Sarah Jane Oakman

NSW MARRIAGE REGISTRATION TRANSCRIPTION
REF NO 1893/7091

GROOM Maurice McGrath
STATUS Bachelor
PLACE OF BIRTH Not stated
OCCUPATION Farmer
AGE Not stated
USUAL RESIDENCE Humula
FATHER Not stated
OCCUPATION Not stated
MOTHER Not stated

BRIDE Sarah Jane Oakman
STATUS Spinster
PLACE OF BIRTH Not stated
OCCUPATION Living with parents
AGE Under 21 years
USUAL RESIDENCE Humula
FATHER Thomas Oakman
OCCUPATION Not stated
MOTHER Not stated

DATE OF MARRIAGE 11 Jul 1893
PLACE OF MARRIAGE Simmons St Wagga Wagga
RELIGION Presbyterian
WITNESSES Edward Oakman, Emma Jane Oakman
MINISTER J Macintyre


THE CONSENT OF SARAH JANE OAKMAN, BEING THE MOTHER OF THE BRIDE, WAS GIVEN IN WRITING TO THE MARRIAGE OF SARAH JANE OAKMAN WITH MAURICE MCGRATH, THE SAID SARAH JANE OAKMAN BEING UNDER THE AGE OF 21 YEARS.

Interesting to note that despite Sarah's mother giving written permission for her daughter to marry no mother is not noted on the marriage certificate. Looks like sloppy book keeping by the minister. Which makes it difficult to assume Maurice was estranged from his family because there is no reference to his parents...

Do we have any BDM or baptism for the other siblings?

Regards Julie

The "not stated" blanks on the NSW BDM marriage certificates 1856-1895 are not brickwalls.  Here's a thread I prepared some time ago that may be of help in overcoming the elusive blanks.  The basic problem was that the clergy were forwarding only a summary registration to NSW BDM's head office in Sydney, due to an ongoing dispute (forty years in duration) with the civil requirements for registering marriages in NSW.   NSW BDM has not ever completed the reconciliation of their own summary records with the original Church registers.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=546609.0   


ADD
I would expect the transcription should have included the names of the witnesses.   Perhaps it was not a full transcription.   

Fingers crossed.

Cheers,  JM

[majm]

NSW Electoral Roll 1878  THE MURRUMBIDGEE:

ALL with the surname McGrath
John, of Wagga Wagga, residence Murrumbidgee
John, of Wagga Wagga, freehold, Lachlan
John P, of Wagga Wagga, residence Murrumbidgee
John Jospeh, of Wagga Wagga, residence Murrumbidgee
William, of Wagga Wagga, residence Murrumbidgee
Thomas, of Junee Reefs, freehold Lachlan
Michael, of Junee Reefs, residence Lachlan
Thomas of Mundawadrah, freehold Murrumbidgee

ALL with the surname OAKMAN
James, of Ombango, residence Murrumbidgee
Thomas, senior of Oberne, residence Murrumbidgee
Thomas, junior of Ombango, residence Murrumbidgee
Richard, of Ombango, residence Wagga Wagga
Thomas, of Humula, residence Murrumbidgee

NSW ER 1903 BLAND, polling at Wagga Wagga
Morris McGRATH, of Baylis St, a fruiterer
Sarah Jane McGRATH, of Baylis St, domestic Duties
Thomas OAKMAN, of Baylis St, gardener

Cheers,  JM