Kyle's Tullynahinnion Portglenone Co Antrim

[wildwind]

Thats good.  You have been a huge help and all factual.
As per Kingkerswell   
John Kyle marriage where the father was Joseph. 1852 To Mary Jane Morris in Portglenone First Presbyterian Church. I can find no children. 

That is probably the correct John Kyle and would agree with him being a widow.

I cant remember the entire name without either my father or daughter but here goes.   Its in our family history
sophia maria laetitia ? constantine curtis bell
Cant remember the connection but if it is sticking in your mind its not a bit wonder, there's not many with a book for a name.   
I'll find out from My Dad if he remembers or my daughter who seemed to latch on to it as a child.
Thanks again.     

[nvb272]

The John Kyle you mentioned on the 1901 census was married in 1883 to an Elizabeth Craig widow-previous name Bell!

who was sophia?

[nvb272]

someone said John was married 4 times, just found an  e-mail from New Zealand sent in march last year that states he was born Tullynahinnion tho the census states Londonderry which would still be correct.

marriages

1. Martha Harris?
2. Margaret McKeown
3. Anna Maria Curtis Bell
4. Sophia McMullan

still not precise though

[wildwind]

Anna Maria Latitia sophia constantine Curtis Bell.    Had to get that lot together just the now.   Oh and I'll get the who she was and to whom and post it.

Interesting that the census is different from reality.  I think I remember ?? telling me this while I was in NZ. 
Tullynahinnion is in Co Antrim.
It is very possible that John was born in Tullynahinnion but these little things happen.  In this case we are fairly well convinced that what is turning up here is fact. 

There was a John Kyle (full cousin of our John)  son of William Kyle (Brother to Joseph)  and Mary Vance who married a Mary Jane Harris (Martha) apparently??   Could this be where the Harris connection come in at that generation.  There were a lot of connection to the Harris's it would seem.  Didnt stop there, came right down into my generation
Now William Kyle and Mary vance are quoted as going to Wisconsin but there is also evidence that their son John Kyle married a Mary Jane Harris as above.
Could someone have been confused as I have with the amount of Mary Vance's and John Kyle's that appear as a result.   

John's last wife is well renowned to have outlived him but had no family to him.

I am leaning toward the earlier info supplied by Kingkerswell that quotes marriages that run one after the other.
If he had married a Harris that would have been more than likely the normal neighbourly Harris's we presume. 
I would be hard to convince that that would not have been recorded in Portglenone to a John Kyle who's father was a Joseph.  The Harris's have been Portglenone longer than the Kyle's
Thanks  again I'll run this around everyone.
D

 

[wildwind]

I couldnt understand the 1901 census having a
John Kyle as head of house
Eliza Jane as Wife
and an Anne Jane as daughter especially as it is so well known John had no family to his last wife.

Will someone correct me if I am wrong.  Could there be a mistake with the age of Ann/Anne Jane.
Let presume.
The John Kyle is "our John"
The Eliza Jane is in fact Elizabeth Craig/Bell
The Anne Jane is the daughter Ann Jane b1876 to previous wife Sophia. 
The 1901 census refers to Anne Jane as being 21yrs.  Ann Jane born to Sophia is given as being born or reg in 1876 which would have made her 25/26yrs in 1901.   

It is well passed down that John was outlived by his last wife and that wife had no family. As a matter of fact there is a bit of a jokey yarn about that but it best not quoted I feel. 
It is interesting that there is an Ann/Anne Jane referred to twice, once in the census and once in the reg in Portglenone although the dob and census age dont match this Ann/Anne Jane doesn't appear anywhere else and neither does any other John Kyle of the correct age and townland so would anyone like to lay odd's on the 1901 Anne Jane age being incorrect.  I have had a little bit of a nose'y and there are several ages quoted in the two census for other families that dont agree with suggested age at registration. 

Please feel free to comment.  I am not a person prone to assumptions rather I get myself in trouble for being too calculating and too logical.  This however does not seem to be an exact science like engineering where it either fits or it doesn't.   

This is going way better than I thought and again thanks to everyone.  Especially Kingkerswell and nvb272 who without I would not have had the first idea where to go. 
All I need now is for the descendants of some of the other sibling to read this and post a reply.   

[kingskerswell]

Hi,
   It was very common for ages to be incorrect. I have often seen a difference greater or less than ten years between the 1901 and 1911 census for the same individual.

Regards

[ddanddm]

I am interested to see there is a  McKeown connection in your Kyle family - I am researching James McKeown/McKeon (father was James McKeon, farmer) who married Sarah Houston in Ballyeaston in 1845 in the Church of Ireland, they had a son David McKeown around 1857 in Ballyclare (he subsequently came out to NZ).  I have found a family of McKeown's in the 1901/1911 Tullynahinnion census which could fit.  Does anyone have any information of any of the above McKeowns.
Any help/advice greatly appreciated.

[wildwind]

I haven't really gotten into the McKeown side just yet as it is not proving the easiest.  Neither was the Kyle's until I posted here and got the Irish census of 1901.
The census has proved a couple of things that were previously not known along with a couple of leads presented here.     
If you have one ancestor "Mckeown" in the middle to late 1800s it is likely that is the spelling you are after.   
Several things also.  There are those with the theory that "McKeown" is an Irish name and that may be so to a point but that leg of our family were fiercely proud of their Scot's heritage.  And I mean fierce.
Without a little more guidance or information I haven't much to go on about your James.  I am trying to put a lot of this together while both my father and his aunt who was born McKeown and now at 94 are still around.
Be very cautious with the census and for that matter much information.
On my mothers side I can show you the same man twice on the census of different age(6yrs) than he should be and in the Kyle's I found the same thing.   Kingkerswell also pointed out to me this is not uncommon.   Niether it would seem is a lady using a differant christian name/s once married.
This is not an easy task without a little family knowledge.  Even such a thing as knowing that two old outhouses on a neighbouring farm were once Tams barn and Sams barn. 
That same farm however had a house known as Rachael Harris's but Rachael Harris didnt own it though. 
Yes there were several James McKeown's in what we know of our family.   
Have you any area, townland etc to go on.
Houston is synonymous with the Ballyclare area and Ballyeaston is not far from the Glens where I think our McKeown's seem to have hailed from before being around here.
My GGGrandmother was from McKeown Aghagash.
The weddings were mostly in the bride's church.
Also be careful with the spelling of Finkiltagh.  Irish census has Rinkiltagh and Finkilragh and Porglenone is often Portglanone   
If you have more info, even family stories/legends/folklore are often carried from one generation to the next and can mean the difference between persisting or not.

[ddanddm]

Thanks for your reply.  Maybe some of this information may ring a bell with your aunt McKeown and your father?  I have been searching for so long so hope you don't mind me grasping straws :-)

This is the information I have regarding my McKeowns:
From the marriage certificate:
James McKEOWN (McKEON) born about 1823 married Sarah
HOUSTON in Ballyeaston (Parish of Ballycor and Rashee) 9 September 1845 in
the Church of United Church of England and Ireland by licence, on the
marriage entry Jas McKEON, Labourer (father of James) and
Thomas HOUSTON, farmer, (father of Sarah), witnesses George BEGGS and
Elizabeth BEGGS (or BIGGS),
D.C. COURTENAY was the Perpetual Curate.

Their son David McKEOWN born about 1857 in Ballyclare (according to his New
Zealand marriage certificate which also provided his parents names) , he
travelled to New Zealand from Belfast to New Zealand on the ship Conflict in
1857, his name was bracketed with with a George GRAY (David at this time was
21 and George was 14) we are descended from David.

I feel the following family is connected as well (James could be a sibling
of David's):
James McKEOWN b.1846 (wife Mary McVEIGH/McVAY b.
1850) who married in 1869 in Belfast who had Huston McKEOWN born 7 Jan 1871
in Ballynure,David McKEOWN b. 1872 and Samuel McKEOWN born 25 Jul 1874
Ballynure.

I also found in the 1901 /1911 census this information about a family of McKeowns (I wonder if the James - head of household could by my James who married Sarah from my line) - James McKeown b about 1828, head of the family, Presbyterian, in Tullynahinnion with his two daughters - Mary and Nancy, and a grandson David born about 1897.