Grangetown 1881 - 1911

[jeaner]

I am writing a dissertation on the development of Grangetown between the above dates especially the development of the Irish community in the original eight streets. Any information, links, photographs or maps would be very gratefully received.

[Whipby]

Hi Jeaner - have you seen this one?

http://www.communigate.co.uk/ne/cardboardcity/

[jeaner]

Yes thank you. Just hoping there was someone with some additional info.

[MarieP]

Hi Jeaner!  I have been chasing an O'Brien family who are noted in the 1901 Census at 90 Vaughan Street, Eston, Grangetown, ie JOHN, wife MARY, daughter MARY, son TIMOTHY and daughter ELLEN.  John was a steelworker and Timothy was a school teacher.

In the 1911 Census John was a widower, with Timothy and Ellen and they lived at 13 Alexandra Road, Grangetown.  Mary had died in 1909. John died in 1916.

I am interested in which steel works John may have been employed at and also where Timothy and Ellen may have gained their education as school teachers.  Timothy migrated to Sydney, Australia in 1912 where he was a school teacher and his son, John, became a Supreme Court Justice.

I noted that you mentioned "original eight streets' re the Irish connection.  John was born in Killavullen, Mallow, Co. Cork (as per varius Census) and I would be interested in your dissertation when it is completed, or any information re the Irish in Grangetown.
Much appreciated,
Marie in Sydney

[MarieP]

Hi Jeaner!  The O'Briens were also living in 90 Vaughan Street, Eston, Grangetown in the 1891 Census under the name of BRYAN.  I have also been unable to pick up the marriage of John & Mary which was probably between 1869-1875 or the birth of Timothy circa 1873.  Should anything op up in your researching I would be over the moon!!
Thanks,  Marie

[jeaner]

Hello MarieP
I have found the family living in South Bank- just a couple of miles from Grangetown, between there and Middlesbrough, in the 1881 census and there is a daughter Johanna who is four years older than Timothy. She is not in the 1891 household but as she would be 21 she might have gone into service or married. In 1891 there is also a son James who I think is 7 (blurred) but not there by the 1911 - again could have left home to find work. Always the possibility that those missing siblings didn't survive.
Timothy would most probably have gone to St. Patrick's school in South Bank. Teaching Certificates were issued in those days but I think the requirements were fairly basic and you could teach without one as a teaching assistant and work your way up. As Mary was a London girl they could have met up and married almost anywhere in the country depending on where he was working or where her family were working.
Grangetown was built, starting 1881, to provide housing for Bolckow and Vaughan Ironworks employees, eight original streets with a road for shops bisecting them and a road at the west end which housed schools, churches, police station and some rather better housing - doctor's etc. The best thing you can do to get an overview of Grangetown is to check out this website - history, photos, maps etc. which I'm sure you will find both interesting and informative.
http://www.communigate.co.uk/ne/cardboardcity/

Hope you find that helpful.

[jeaner]

Just realised that Johanna was born in London in 1870 so likely that that is where John and Mary were married. If she was their first child, probably between 1868 and 70 is my best guess, although as John was 24 in 1870 and Mary 25 it is possible that they had previous babies who didn't survive.

[MarieP]

Hi Jeaner!   Many thanks for replying to my query.  Most informative, particularly the school that they possibly went to and the fact of probably not having a formal degree in teaching as today.

I am in a bit of a quandry.....the family believed that John's wife was a Mary O'Sullivan.  I have been just about everywhere, ie. Free BDMs, Findmypast, etc, and the only marriage of a John O'Brien to a Mary O'Sullivan was in 1861 in Bromley, Kent.  I sent for the certificate but now I am not too sure as that would make them very young and the ages on the certificate were older.  Do you have any thoughts?

Also, the steel works.   Any information on that?
Again, I appreciate your reply.
Best wishes,
Marie

[jeaner]

Hi Marie
I think you are right the age at marriage is too young and it is more likely that the marriage date is nearer to the date of their first child's birth -mid 20's was a more usual marriage age for men. I have tried looking for a marriage in the London area but not found anything that looks particularly promising and the changing of spelling is not helpful. Unfortunately this is not a good time for me to get sidetracked as the next six month must concentrate on my dissertation for my degree.
The works were called Bolckow and Vaughan,started around 1841 when ironstone was discovered in the Cleveland Hills at Eston, initially an ironworks in Middlesbrough which became one of the largest in Europe, and started producing steel around 1812 I think at their Cargo Fleet works. You really should look at a map of Middlesbrough to get an idea of the size of the industry. Later became Dorman Long who provided all the steel for the Sydney Harbour Bridge - my father was working there at that time 1930's and when I was in Sydney I climbed the bridge in his honour. Then was British Steel and is now owned by SSI a Thai company - and there is still a family connection as my daughter works there as a planner.
Hope you find the correct line to follow - I would be interested to know if you do.
Jean