Author Topic: watercress seller = prostitute? COMPLETED  (Read 6002 times)

Offline Adamb

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Re: watercress seller = prostitute? COMPLETED
« Reply #18 on: Friday 28 September 12 09:35 BST (UK) »
(Polite cough) - um, I'm the one who started the thread re water-cress sellers!

I think what has been said is very interesting and wonder if it wouldn't be a very good idea to copy these posts under a new heading, eg Marriage Laws or the like, so as to bring these important matters to a wider audience.
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Offline LiamJDB

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Re: watercress seller = prostitute? COMPLETED
« Reply #19 on: Friday 28 September 12 11:21 BST (UK) »
I heartily agree that it'd be nice to have a forum for questions regarding the laws (and practices) relating to marriage, but then I'm the publisher of the definitive guide to the marriage laws and practices of England and Wales from 1600 onwards, aimed squarely at the kind of questions genealogists come across, so I'm utterly biased! ;)

Adamb - it's not at all uncommon to find examples of bigamy before the early 1970s, when divorce was harder, rarer, and more socially unacceptable than today, but one point I'd note is that such people were nevertheless prepared to marry illegally rather than openly cohabit (in the current sense of the word) - bigamy has today become a rare crime, as nobody turns a hair at a couple living together unmarried. I assume that what you mean by "common law marriages" in your ancestry are examples of couples living together in a stable and enduring relationship out of wedlock? Do you know for sure that this was the case, or is this an assumption based upon not having found a marriage? Have you perhaps found that one was already married to a third party (and was presumably unwilling to commit bigamy)?

As to watercress sellers and prostitution - as a suggestion, you might like to try searching online full text historic databases such as Eighteenth Century Collections Online, or The Times Online for examples of the use of the phrase. I know Professor Probert hasn't come across this phrase in all her research. An interesting observation here might be that Victorian and early C20th middle class writers and journalists were very quick to portray the working classes as living depraved and immoral lives: Henry Mayhew, for example, is always quoted these days as having discovered that more than 90% of London's Victorian street costermongers lived together unmarried. In fact, he was thoroughly condemned almost straight away by a public meeting of London street-sellers, who were outraged at what they called "a downright falsehood", and who pointed out that Mayhew had paid his (very disreputable, and in fact drunken) informants to tell him what he wanted to hear. They challenged him to appear at a meeting to substantiate his claims, but he refused to attend. Yes, prostitution was rife, but being a prostitute by necessity at times in one's life didn't equate to not being married, which was the norm throughout the period.

Liam
Specialist in the laws and practices relating to marriage, England and Wales, 1600 to the present day

Offline LiamJDB

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Re: watercress seller = prostitute? COMPLETED
« Reply #20 on: Friday 28 September 12 11:40 BST (UK) »
Adamb - an extra observation on watercress sellers! I've had a look at C18th Collections Online and the British Library's British Newspapers 1600-1900 full text database, and I can't find any indication of the term being used derogatorily. There's only one instance of it in the C18th, and that's a song called The Watercress Girl in a book titled The British Songster (1800). It's very quaint, pretty, and "rural idyll". As to newspapers, there are 80+ uses of the phrase, but a quick look through them doesn't bring up anything prostitute-y. They do frequently appear, though, in mid-to-late Victorian police reports linked to deaths through poverty, alcoholism, etc, and in cases where they've been charged with petty theft, disorderly behaviour etc, so it's reasonable to assume that by that time it was a lowly and impoverished job. Hope that casts some light on it!

Liam
Specialist in the laws and practices relating to marriage, England and Wales, 1600 to the present day

Offline Adamb

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Re: watercress seller = prostitute? COMPLETED
« Reply #21 on: Friday 28 September 12 14:37 BST (UK) »
Thanks, Liam that's a help.  I do know my gt-aunt was in Holloway in 1911 for a spell and hope to find out why in October (maybe a suffragette - who knows?) when I get to England for a few days - there are surviving records in the LMA.

regards

Adam
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Offline smudwhisk

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Re: watercress seller = prostitute? COMPLETED
« Reply #22 on: Friday 28 September 12 20:07 BST (UK) »
I'd concur it's not likely to be a general term for a prostitue.  My 4x Great Grandmother Ann Gray is listed as one on the 1841 census.  She was 65 years old at the time living with her married daughter and son in law.  Admittedly they were poor but I doubt she was practising that trade on the side at that age. ;)  With all professions though, they could always be practising as a sideline when times got tough.
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Offline Rena

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Re: watercress seller = prostitute? COMPLETED
« Reply #23 on: Friday 28 September 12 21:03 BST (UK) »
I can't possibly let anyone think that their ancestor did not make a good living from selling watercress.  This herb is packed with iron and other goodies and even during WWII when food was scarce watercress ensured children got a supply of iron, etc.  There's a long growing season and as any child knows you can grow simple mustard & cress seeds on a damp cloth all year round, and I know water cress can be grown outside over winter... unlike most of what's in my garden 

This website shows pictures of men working in the massive fields of watercress.  Also shown is an outline of another watercress seller...

http://watercress.co.uk/about/historical-facts/

<<One watercress seller who made good was Eliza James, who as a child of five hawked wild bunches of watercress around factories in Birmingham, but who later earned the nickname of “The Watercress Queen” because of her near monopoly on the London watercress restaurant and hotel trade. She was reputed to be the biggest owner of watercress farms anywhere in the world, creating vast watercress beds at Mitcham and Beddington in Surrey and at Warnford, Overton and Hurstbourne Priors in Hampshire. But despite her wealth, she still turned up every morning to work her stall at Covent Garden Market which she had been running for over 50 years, arriving every day on a watercress cart. Reporting on her death in 1927, the Daily Mirror described her life as “one of the most wonderful romances of business London has ever known”.
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Offline Redroger

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Re: watercress seller = prostitute? COMPLETED
« Reply #24 on: Friday 28 September 12 21:23 BST (UK) »
I understand that to grow watercress needs pure water; hence it is a guide to the purity of water supply.
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