mcgreal

[Owenwee]

I see the Parish record in St Mary's Liverpool,the names are in Latin but looking online does appear that Joannes stands for John and Jacobi for James.

Good Luck in your search.

[stacey2411]

thanks owenwee

very frustrating for me!!! especially as iv been informed today all is not what it seems.........but that doesnt suprise me as iv had a lot of suprises about my grandad things no one knew!!! lets just say he was an extremly private man as he never told his children about what iv found out about his life but maybe thats because he didnt want any pity??

watch this space as hopefully will be updated on wednesday.......
intruiged?? yeah so am i.......

[Owenwee]

You have me intrigued now,i will keep a look in for your update.Just found a James Mcgreal living in Boleybrien in the 1856 Valuation List. This is 5 miles from Westport.

[Lisacul Rosie]

Hello Mrs Thorne,

I will have to do all this in two separate posts to retain clarity.

If you log into Mundia.com and search for a John  McGreal dob 1867 and view the tree, there are two researchers who have John and Mary Coughlin detailed . The Coughlin family are the ones married to your 1867 John as some are neighbours in the 1891 Census.John is consistent with his age on the 1890 census and the overseas records so I have no reason to doubt 1867 as an approx date of birth.

The parents are shown as a John Ralph McGreal and a Bridget. This is so far left of field from what I have seen on the McGreal families of the Westport Parish ,that at best one of these researchers must have obtained the details from John and Marys wedding cert,which hopefully you will have shortly.

Civil registration of births for Catholics started in 1864, but only became compulsory after 1874 with  1874 Births and Deaths Registration Act.If the birth was not registered we could still expect a baptismal record to exist as records for the Aughaval Parish are fairly complete for our time period.

A birth record for John exists as does a later death record. Failing this test , Mayoancestors has baptismal details with clues as to parents names. Johns born in South Mayo are of interest for years around 1867 give us no better idea. The closest match a R McG and B H is a Richard McGreal and Bridget Hanley of Linehall St,Castlebar. North Mayo is outside the Westport area.

So we are non the wiser then. I will offer a possible avenue to pursue in the next post.

On a separate note the marriage of John Joseph and Louisa Sharp can be expanded beyond the Mundia tree. Like the tree I sent you in June I have had this tree on my db for some while and not linked the two. Item 1.7 from email, male decendants marry into the Leary, Vick and Boulsover families and female decendats marry into Waterton, Kiggins and Duckworth families. They appear in West Derby,North Liverpool and Wallasey . Any problems drop me a line in a couple of months . NB mark your sources if you are not going to ovtain certificates.

Padraig.

[Lisacul Rosie]

Hello Stacey,

Over the last fifteen years a lot of work has been done on the McGreal/McGrail families and the connection to the Westport area. From all this and existing online records the name Ralph as a christian or second name is extremely rare. I could only find the name a handful of times in the US .

The marriage record will prove important as it may indicate an error in its interpretation, completion or an attempt to obscure an identity.

A record which took my interest was the birth of a John Ralph to a John Ralph and Bridget McGreal in 1867 of Bridge St Westport which appears in Deesegenes freepages.

The actual baptism and civil registration
are provided for reference. The marriage took place in 1862 and details are available at RootsIreland a fee paying site.

This is all speculation, John may have chosen to leave Westport and resume a life under the maiden name of his mother . As we both know life in the family while in Liverpool was very unstable not aided by Johns occupation, possibly by choice to remove himself from the domestic situation of family life.

Whilst this is fresh in my mind, a second child was born to John and Bridget a Margaret Anne 1864

Margaret Ann marries Patrick Malone who inturn bears 11 children nine of whom survive. Those children who survive are Ellen Josephine, Margaret Mary,Thomas, Michael Francis, Bridget Ellen 1884, William Joseph, John Patrick, Patrick Joseph and Clare.

The couple remained in Ireland and appear in both the 1901 and 1911 Census.

A Molly Malone a Rootschat forum user has shown an interest in the Ralph family and possibly is descendant of Margaret, Johns sister. You may want to drop her a PM to exchange views.

I am currently trying to find common ground with another researcher on the John Ralph  or McGreal who seems to have doubts but it is early days.

The Ralph family in Bridge St were Watchmakers and Jewelers . I am informed that Bridget McGreal father was a John mother as yet not known. and Johns parents were a Patrick and Ann McGreal. If John McGreal was the Bridge St John then he was a Tailor.

There was also a John Ralph born 1869 to a family residing in Peters st
and another John Ralph born around 1867 at The Neale Baliinrobe who later in 1886 joined the British Army and stationed in Ireland, discharged 1902. All thes may muddy the water but HEY HO. I still think the Ralph in Bridge St will unlock the mystery.


A lot there to chew on.

[stacey2411]

Hi pat,

many thanks marriage certificate has been bought and paid for just awaiting delivery hopefully it should arrive within the nxt week or so this is very interesting i had actually seen and saved  the page stating the birth of a john ralph to the parents you stated also on the top of the page states
Westport Parish Births, some marriages listed. 1862 to 1879

     If a Street is listed i. e. Bridge St the location is Westport...

uncanny that you should then tell me about this....
i shall pm Molly Malone 1st and take it from there. I will pm you when i recieve the certificates to keep you updated
again many thanks for your help it has been invaluable to my search and has helped me  immensly on the way.
until we speak again
kind regards

stacey

[Lisacul Rosie]

Hello Stacey,

I think the person at the end of my dialogue on the Ralph/McGreal issue is a Niamh Flannagan . Might be worth name dropping if it helps.

[stacey2411]

Hi pat,

just a little info for you my john joseph died in 1950s not sure exactly what year yet but will make a point of looking he died in liverpool and lived to be an old man....My aunt remembers being about 4/5 and not wanting to go see him as he was a horrible man!!! was he the drinker???
regards
stacey

[Lisacul Rosie]

If he was the son of John Ralph of Bridge St, he would not have been impoverished and may have been used to the high life as a young man, relatively speaking without the personal means to support it. Push come to shove he may have rejected the tedious family trade of watchmaking and packed his bags.
As is the case act in haste repent in leisure, with the comfort of the bottle . In the end those around him suffer, a common theme for many Irish families.

There was a John Ralph from Ballina who was a tailor and a bit of a Lad who had a habit of falling over and waking up in Castlebar jail even into his late 60s.