frederick & john thomas birch

[JCFod]

hi
im  looking to see if anyone can help  trying to find  some info on frederick birch b1895 his father  is a john thomas birch b 1879 surrey tryed looking  but come up a blank so not sure what im doing wrong  we believe fredrick also had a sister called ella  fredricks daughter  remembers her going to russia which she sold flags to the russia's  this was to be in the first world war but never returned  so  this confuses me


fredrick did marry hilda burnice carling b abt 1894 her parents  were robert and  mary f
thanks to anyone who can help

[CaroleW]

Was Frederick also born Surrey or elsewhere?

Have you checked the 1911 census for him?  The free index shows a Frederick Birch born 1896 living in Guildford 

See instructions below

USING THE FREE 1911 INDEX TO DETERMINE THE CORRECT HOUSEHOLD

http://www.1911census.co.uk/search/tnaform.aspx

Once you find a possible match - make a note of the county and district in which the person was living

Return to the index and in PERSONAL DETAILS - just put the surname of the family - nothing else

In LOCATION - Select the county and below it - type in the district

In OTHER MEMBERS OF THE HOUSEHOLD - show the full name of the person you have found on the index

Click SEARCH

The 1911 census is strictly pay per view so you will have to buy credits to view the full entry - the above instructions will only help to possibly show others of the same surname in the same household

[mosiefish]

OK I have to ask ............  why do you say Fredericks father was John Thomas Birch born 1879 Surrey?   I thought we had found your John Thomas Birch born 1866 Bolton who was a Core Maker in the census with son Frederick  - his occupation of Core Maker was also stated on Fredericks Marriage Certificate to Hilda that I posted.

Very puzzled as to why you have ruled him out?

By the way there is no birth registered of a John Thomas Birch in Surrey between 1837 and 1915.

Regards,
Mo

[JCFod]

hi mo yes  your right  you did it has been so confusing over the last few days trying to get my head around it  i hadnt changed  john thomas b to 1866  how can i find out about  fredricks sister   ella

and john thomas's  birth place must'nt of been surrey if hes not  anywhere

so im best to get fredricks birth and find  john thomas's birth and order both of there birth cert aint i ?

[mosiefish]

Lets start with what we know:

1901 Census
28 First Avenue, Wigan
John Ths Birch, Head, Mar, 35, Core Maker Iron Foundry, Bolton
Ellen, Wife, Mar, 35, Lancashire Sharples
Annie, Daur, 10, Lancashire Bolton
Frederick, 6, Lancashire Wigan
Nellie, Daur, 3, Lancashire Wigan
Alice, Daur, 1 month, Lancashire Wigan

Frederick, Nellie and Alice are all shown as having the mothers maiden name of Hart on www.lancashirebmd.org.uk

I wonder if sister Nellie was known as Ella in later times? Forget that one - there is a birth registered on the above site I posted of an Ella Margarete Birch in 1904 with the mothers maiden name of Hart so it definitely looks like the correct family.

You will probably find Frederick on the next census with the surname transcribed as Brick.

Mo

 
 

[JCFod]

thank u so much  mo  will go and see what i can come up with  with that info  thanks for taking the time to help

[RendLill]

First post - and finding the site confusing - so apologies if this isn't the way to go about my query.

I picked up via google a September 2012 post from Mosiefish about John Thomas Birch with a bit of discussion about the 1901 census.

I'm really interested in this as John Thomas BIRCH, coremaker, was my great grandfather with his daughter Nellie the grandmother that I remember. I've managed to research the family quite a bit - including Ella Margarete Birch whose daughter Irene McHugh died only last year in 2017 in Bolton Hospital (sadly completely unknown to our side of the family).

I've come to some blocks - for example when did Ellen Hart (John Thomas's wife) die: I just can't find grave or death but know that she died quite young which is why my grandmother (Nellie/Nell/Ellen) was brought up by her uncle Robert Birch and his wife Margaret. Nell married my grandfather George Howard Rendall and went out to Shanghai with him where my father was born in 1920.

If anyone is looking into the Birch, Hart or related families up in Bolton, please say hello.

[CaroleW]

Welcome to Rootschat

This is the post you refer to but the poster wasn't Mosiefish it was JCFod who hasn't been online with RC since Feb 2013

topics now merged

[CaroleW]

It's clear from the 1901 and 1911 entries that Ellen died between censuses yet I can't see any death for her

Last child was born Dec qtr 1904 so she was alive up to then