Author Topic: Richard III and DNA testing  (Read 32717 times)

Offline shanew147

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Re: Richard III and DNA testing
« Reply #36 on: Monday 17 September 12 13:58 BST (UK) »
my understanding is that even though the proportion of DNA in common with a potential living descendant will be very small - there can be distinctive sequences intact in these chains that can help confirm, or rule out, likely connections.


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Offline davidft

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Re: Richard III and DNA testing
« Reply #37 on: Monday 17 September 12 14:35 BST (UK) »
I have been reading a history forum and there is a great deal of sceptism on there about the whole dig and how its being media managed. Still here is a link to the Richard III society

http://www.richardiii.net/

if you go to the what's new section you can see the full report on the dig under the title

Issued by University of Leicester Press Office
Issue date: 12 September 2012

SEARCH FOR KING RICHARD III ENTERS NEW PHASE AFTER ‘MOMENTOUS DISCOVERY HAS POTENTIAL TO REWRITE HISTORY’


which includes a bit about the DNA testing
James Stott c1775-1850. James was born in Yorkshire but where? He was a stonemason and married Elizabeth Archer (nee Nicholson) in 1794 at Ripon. They lived thereafter in Masham. If anyone has any suggestions or leads as to his birthplace I would be interested to know. I have searched for it for years without success. Thank you.

Offline Alexander.

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Re: Richard III and DNA testing
« Reply #38 on: Monday 17 September 12 16:54 BST (UK) »
It certainly affects the proportions of DNA that you inherit - those from generations before your parents are indeterminable. Here's a little illustration - take a pack of cards, separate the suits and discard the aces - the twelves spades represent your paternal grandfather's DNA, hearts your paternal grandmother's, etc. Deal six spades and six hearts to your father, then six clubs and six diamonds to your mother. Now shuffle your father's cards and deal six to yourself, likewise with your mother's cards. Now look at your cards - it's unlikely that you'll have exactly three cards (25%) from each suit (grandparent).

While it is true that it is unlikely one will inherit in exact proportions as Redroger described, they will not be very far off in most cases. I think the analogy is slightly misleading - you have to keep in mind the vast amount of DNA in our cells. So take a thousand packs of cards rather than just one. If you repeat the experiment with a large sample size, the probability is very high that you will receive close to 25% from each suit (grandparent). Of course, as you get many generations back, a larger margin of error creeps in.

Alexander

Offline Redroger

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Re: Richard III and DNA testing
« Reply #39 on: Monday 17 September 12 20:46 BST (UK) »
Thanks for the explanations, Freckneale, I think the point you make about larger statistical populations is extremely valid.
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Offline youngtug

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Re: Richard III and DNA testing
« Reply #40 on: Monday 17 September 12 21:06 BST (UK) »
I think pbmartins anology is quite good, the selection of proportions of  Autosomal DNA inherited are random ;  http://www.smgf.org/education/animations/autosomal.jspx

Offline GrahamSimons

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Re: Richard III and DNA testing
« Reply #41 on: Monday 17 September 12 21:43 BST (UK) »
I like this animation - if I'd seen it before I'd have used it in teaching. But inevitably it has rather simplified things: please forgive me if I get geeky biological at this point.

The reshuffling of genetic material between chromosomes in the process of meiosis occurs because, as the animation shows, parts of matching (homologous) chromosomes are exchanged. These crossover points are called chiasmata; there are likely to be a handful of chiasmata between larger chromosomes and one or two between smaller chromosomes. Now even the shortest chromosome is about 51 million base pairs long, so the deduction is that the reshuffling is of large chunks rather than small sections, even over several generations, and that specific DNA sequences will be conserved. The very large size of the genome and the small number of chiasmata makes the card-shuffling analogy quite limited (would be a great teaching/discussion point!); perhaps it's better viewed as the small child shuffling cards, where he merely swaps three large handfuls of cards rather than shuffling individual cards. That's why DNA testing for STRs - short tandem repeats - can work as the repeated sequence is inherited as a block unless it's very unlucky and ends up with a chiasma.
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Offline davidft

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Re: Richard III and DNA testing
« Reply #42 on: Saturday 02 February 13 22:02 GMT (UK) »
The Channel 4 programme on Richard III and whether he is the "King in the Car Park" is on Channel 4 on Monday at 9pm
James Stott c1775-1850. James was born in Yorkshire but where? He was a stonemason and married Elizabeth Archer (nee Nicholson) in 1794 at Ripon. They lived thereafter in Masham. If anyone has any suggestions or leads as to his birthplace I would be interested to know. I have searched for it for years without success. Thank you.

Offline Ruskie

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Re: Richard III and DNA testing
« Reply #43 on: Sunday 03 February 13 12:50 GMT (UK) »
Thank you David. That looks interesting - will try to download it.  :)

Offline Maggie.

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Re: Richard III and DNA testing
« Reply #44 on: Monday 04 February 13 10:10 GMT (UK) »
They are just about to reveal whether the body in the car park really IS Richard III
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