Richard III and DNA testing

[davidft]

thanks for confirming the status of Mr Ibsen's mother. shame she didn't live so see the current events unfold.

[Maggie.]

He wasn't a hunchback, as Shakespeare alleged, but he did have scoliosis, which is a sideways curvature of the spine.  Apparently the skeleton also has scoliosis.

This is intriguing as I'm one of those who believe that the hunchback, withered armed, limping Richard was an invention of Tudor propaganda as no contemporary reports mention that he had any deformity.  But the fact that the skeleton appears to have scoliosis lends credibility, if it is indeed Richard, to him having a spine deformity, perhaps not a hunchback but maybe one shoulder higher than the other. 

This did not however prevent him being an accomplished soldier from the age of 14 until his death on the battlefield at Bosworth - the last English king to die in battle.  Difficult to conceive he could have achieved this with all the physical handicaps that Shakespeare gives him.

Maggie - slightly off topic 

[Greensleeves]

I too am fascinated by this discovery and the associated research, and particularly that the skeleton suffered from scoliosis.  I am awaiting further information with bated breath!

[pbmartin]

Autosomal DNA Would seem to be inherited thus, You are 50% of each of your parents, 25% of your grandparents, 12.5% great grandparents, 6.25% of your 2Xgreat grandparents, and 3.125% of your 3Xgreat grandparents. Obviously therefore unless you have a high level of inbreeding in your tree then this seems to be little use in determining your ancestral line beyond your great grandparents.

It doesn't work like that! The 50% that you get from each parent can contain any mix of what they got from their parents.

[Redroger]

Autosomal DNA Would seem to be inherited thus, You are 50% of each of your parents, 25% of your grandparents, 12.5% great grandparents, 6.25% of your 2Xgreat grandparents, and 3.125% of your 3Xgreat grandparents. Obviously therefore unless you have a high level of inbreeding in your tree then this seems to be little use in determining your ancestral line beyond your great grandparents.

It doesn't work like that! The 50% that you get from each parent can contain any mix of what they got from their parents.

Does that affect the argument and the proportions. Please explain in more depth if possible.

[Skoosh]

  Is inadequate exit signage in these car parks to blame for buried bodies?

[pbmartin]

Does that affect the argument and the proportions. Please explain in more depth if possible.

If anything it strengthens the argument that autosomal DNA is of little use to determine your ancestral line beyond a couple of generations.

It certainly affects the proportions of DNA that you inherit - those from generations before your parents are indeterminable. Here's a little illustration - take a pack of cards, separate the suits and discard the aces - the twelves spades represent your paternal grandfather's DNA, hearts your paternal grandmother's, etc. Deal six spades and six hearts to your father, then six clubs and six diamonds to your mother. Now shuffle your father's cards and deal six to yourself, likewise with your mother's cards. Now look at your cards - it's unlikely that you'll have exactly three cards (25%) from each suit (grandparent).

[Maggie.]

I'm following this thread with interest.  pbmartin - thank you for that lucid illustration of how DNA inhertitance works.

Maggie 

[davidft]

They had a little section at the end of today's Daily Politics programme (last 5 minutes - you can watch it on the BBC iplayer) on Richard III.

They were talking to a Professor (Lin Foxall ?) at Leicester University about this. She does not underestimate the difficulties involved in making a genetic connection and pointed out that archaeologists don't normally try to link back to named people. Still they reckon its about 12 weeks until they get the DNA results. What I want an interviewer to ask is why are you only doing one DNA test - why not test against a number of "living descendants" - or is that going to be phase II ?