Toman family help

[rachellowe88]

My name is Rachel Lowe and i am looking for the parents of  a john toman born 1834 in ireland, county down.
he married a alic jane cunningham also born in ireland.

John tomans parents are a felix toman ( occupation:weaver) and Rose( surname unknown) they were both born in ireland.  we believe that felix and rose were born around 1808 give or take a few years, but this is a guess.

the names felix and rose are correct because they appear on the 1851 marriage certificate and parish record for the marriage of john toman to alice jane cunningham in liverpool.

Now the two place names that have come up  when talk about the tomans is the names rafrilland and downpatrick although i do not know what these two place name reference to.

i am wanting to find out about any siblings of john toman also as we have only ever known of john toman and would be nice to find out if he had an brothers and sisters.

if anyone could help with any of this i would be extremely grateful as i hwant to know more about my irish relatives/ancestors and i have hit a brick wall with this and don't know how to move foward.

thanks

rachel lowe

[taramcdsmall]

Hi Rachel,

While Toman is not a rare surname - I think combine it with the christian name Felix it makes it rarer.

The free index doesn't show a John born to a Felix Toman but it does show that between 1820 and 1840 there were 8 children baptised to a Felix Toman in County Down - no guarantees tho that it's the same family.

There was a Felix Toman born in 1870 to a Denis Toman

felix toman 1870

This is him in 1911

felix toman 1911 Irish Census

could be related somehow further down the line

Also the surname Toman is on the Griffiths Valuation for Rathfryland but no Felix though, of course he may have passed away by this time.

toman rathfryland

Tara

[taramcdsmall]

Did your Toman's go to Durham by any chance ?

Just saw some mentions of Toman's from Rathfriland and Durham.

rose toman census

a rose toman birth rathfriland

Tara

[Lisacul Rosie]

Hello Rachel,

County Down surnames Toa-Ton, just scroll down to Toman family name

http://www.rootschat.com/links/0qdm/

Rathfriland Tomans as you will see are noted alongside Drumgath Parish and below is the Griffiths Valuation results for Tomans of Drumgath Parish.

http://www.rootschat.com/links/0qdn/

Irish place names are subject to change and what is detailed as Rathfriland may be Rathfryland Town. As with most records people tended to declare their place of origin as the nearest town of size which may have been miles away or the parish they were from.

I trust the above will be of some help.

[Lisacul Rosie]

Hello again Rachel.

To the credit of Ros Davis his Co Down site is like a one stop shop for info. You may wish to look at his resource/site notes/codes if you wish to look into the family further for records that may be available.

I should have included his notes on Drumgath Parish http://www.rootschat.com/links/0qe2/

[rachellowe88]

Hi tara thanks for your reply to my post. i can't tell you to be honest if they went to durham, there could be a possibility and i don't know where rose was born. As mentioned in my first post i think they were born around 1800-1810 as their son John toman was born in 1834 and i know john toman came over to liverpool and married a alice jane cunningham in liverpool that same year. I am also looking for alice jane cunninghams parents aswell.

samuel cunningham is alice jane cunninghams father and he was a general dealer/nail maker and was born around1811 give or take a few year.s her mother was also called alice (surname unknown.) i know they came from ireland maybe county downs area   alice jane cunningham born 1838 died 1882 had 3 siblings a ann born 1832 a eliza born 1836 and a john born 1838.

Back to john toman i know he was a tailor in ireland before he came over to liverpool in 1851 where he became a licensed victualer to a number of pub over a number years.

whats the link for the free index so i can have a look at who the eight children are.  do you think that john toman could have had a variation to his name thats why it doesnt show up as having a john toman born to a felix.

Hopefully if i do find out where my tomans came from in ireland i would eventually love to go over to ireland, but i dont know for definate where abouts they came from.

ido know that the tomans are commonly known in a few counties. but any help is appreciated.

thanks again.

[taramcdsmall]

Hi Rachel,

I think Padraig has given you some great leads there !

The site that I mentioned is

http://www.rootsireland.ie/

It's a pay per view site which also gives you a few 'free searches' but only gives you the transcriptions of the church records when you pay.

The problem with the Felix that I found was that there was no match to a wife called Rose either - so either it's a different family altogether or maybe the mother's name on your church record is incorrect

While ifhf is a great site it doesn't have ALL the old records. You would need to know exactly which parish John was born in to then see if records still exist for that church.

There was a James listed as born to a Felix, and then I saw a James marrying with a father called Felix.

I saw this James who was a weaver too but at this stage there is no way to know if it's the same chap.

james toman 1901 Irish Census

BTW What religion was John - this might help narrow down a search !

The Toman's in Durham that I mentioned would have been later generations but I mentioned it as sometimes families moved to the same areas, so have you checked in the areas where John and Alice were living to see if there were other Toman's nearby ?

Tara

[rachellowe88]

UPDATED INFORMATION:

 i have looked at john toman's death certificate and also his marriage certificate and when  now hen using the year of marriage and his age his birth year actually comes to 1827

but when looking at the year of death and his age at death his year of birth comes to 1833

now it gets confusing because in the 1881 england census in liverpool john tomans birth year comes to 1834

in the 1891 census john tomans birth year comes to 1833


In reply to tara

i think he may of been catholic .

 i know felix and rose  stayed in ireland when john toman left for liverpool in 1851.

i have had a look on the rootsireland website and i have found a john toman born to a felix toman but his birth year is 1812.  I dont know where to look now. as i've tried everything .but i'll keep trying.

I thought that maybe felix and rose came over with john to liverpool in 1851, like alice jane cunningham and her parents all came over with her siblings. but i've not been able to find a felix and rose with john in liverpool together.  

thanks

[Lisacul Rosie]

 Hello Rachel,

I'm sorry you didn't find my links to be of help, but you may be able to clarify one thing.

Felix Toman appear in the UK records both in the Liverpool and Cumberland/Durham area which with the Irish practice of naming their children may suggest a common heritage. There are only sparse details of a Felix in Ireland but one which I had hoped you may have picked up on is that in addition to a John being born to a Felix there is also a Bernard born to a Felix Toman which is detailed at Ancestry Ireland Birth/Baptisms 1620-1911.
There may be no connection but as a Bernard is detailed on my first link for Rathfriland, a location which you detailed in your first post . Is there a connection?

You state your John became a licensed victualer at some point as was Bernard a spirit and port dealer in 1846.

Did they both learn the trade from a common father?

As you are keen to establish family links to your John, a link to this Bernard may unravel a little more about the mysterious Felix.