John Richardson's Marriage to an Ann, born Greasbrough

[mandyjf]

I believe Sarah Ann was born in Sand Pit Lock in Doncaster, baptized 26 Aug 1849 Balby with Hexthorpe to John and Hannah (England, Select Births and Christenings 1538-1975 collection on Ancestry). On the 1861 census she is a servant age 12 in a Sheffield household (born Doncaster).
Going back to 1851, John, Sarah and Hannah are together in Sheffield (Sarah born Sand Pit Lock Doncaster).
Maybe my family is a different one to the John son of Charlotte, as my Sarah had to live in order to be my great great grandmother. Will send info when birth cert arrives.
The children baptized at St Vincents were Martha b 1852 bapt 1856; Matilda b 1851 bapt 1856 and also Thomas b 1855 bapt 1856- all children of Anne Gooldy and John Richardson. I transcribe for Sheffield Indexers and you can view these transcriptions on this amazing website.

[NoodlesRS]

Thanks for your extra input, much appreciated.  I know of Sarah Ann shown as born Sandpits Doncaster and the birth information being duplicated in the Censuses.   I had also come across Sarah shown as a Servant and had saved it to my Shoebox in Ancestry as I had misgivings about being unable to find her later.   As she is your Great Grandmother that certainly trumps my belief she had died.

But what I now feel -and you allude to in your post - is that we may (only may for the moment) have two different family lines and Sarah Ann does not belong in mine?   John is shown with an ANN in 1851 born Greasbro (sic) not Hannah.  BUT his occupation matches that later shown for the John Richardson (I refer to him as Junior to distinguish him from his father John) married to an Ann Unknown, and of course what this posting is about: what was her maiden name?

I think it best I await on further information after you get the Birth Certificate for Sarah. 

Incidentally my own connection -a little convoluted - stems from John & (my) Ann's daughter Harriet only a year old in the 1861 Census) and like Charlotte missing out on the baptisms you show.   Mary Richardson 1828 (Harriet's Aunt) moved to Birmingham after marrying a Thomas Ward and became a shopkeeper (second hand clothes and furniture) and took in Boarders. Some of the Richardson children joined them, including Harriet.  In due course Harriet married a Peter Cunnington and their children remained in Birmingham. One of them (also  a Peter Cunnington)married my grandmother's sister (I said it was convoluted).  All I set out to do was try to establish Harriet's birth mother and it has proved very difficult hence my posting. 

I also have some queries surrounding Mary's early life in Sheffield when she too was a servant (1841) but that must remain on the back burner for now.  Meanwhile I will take a look at Sheffield Indexers Forum and the site in particular which look very promising.

[mandyjf]

Hello
The birth certificate arrived and Sarah Ann Richardson was born Sand Pit Lock Balby 22 Jan 1849 to John Richardson and Hannah formerly Goldsborough. I have also seen Sarah's marriage certificate and her uncle Frederick is a witness, so I am thinking more and more that these are the same families. I think my next step will be to order a sibling certificate. I have other Hannahs in my tree who alternated their names with Ann, but her surname is tricky, although she has a Greasbrough birth in the parish registers.
I saw on Ancestry that all other trees have Ann Moreland as Sarah's mother, but I have traced the marriages for this quarter of 1844 and Ann Moreland married a William Parkin. The John Richardson in this quarter married a Jane Brooke.
Thanks for the information on the possible siblings. I will continue to look at these!

[NoodlesRS]

Hi Mandy

I am convinced as nearly as I can be that Sarah Ann is of the same family as the remainder of her siblings, Matilda to Mary Ellen and their parents the same as for Sarah. I now discount Ann Moreland on this basis and your excellent research (Uncle Freddie as a witness in particular) for which I thank you.  I agree Hannah and Ann(e) regularly interchange and it is not beyond reason if past researches (in other lines) are anything to go by that Ann Gooldy is most likely a corruption or Goldsborough.   Let us say the odds are in favour but of course there is nothing like proof, so would appreciate anything you may find to back up these suppositions.

Would appreciate confirmation of her marriage and spouse and am about to research same for myself.

Meanwhile will take a Christmas break and resume later.  I wish you a happy Christmas and appreciate your research.

Bob

[NoodlesRS]

I have another query if you can help at some future time it concerns Matilda who as you know other researchers show with parents John Richardson and Ann Moreland which I have discounted.  I believe Matilda & Sarah Ann are siblings -that might be wrong of course, but evidence points that way.  But this aside Matilda appears to have married TWO Haleys: James from Ireland (5 children)and later John (2 children) from Sheffield (relationship one to the other not known).  I have no second marriage evidence and think rather they are one and the same except for birthplace.  Certainly earlier censuses show spouse James and 1901&1911 her spouse becomes John.  I ask from the point of view two heads are better than one as I have been loathe to accept two Hayley marriages even though seemingly favoured by others.  Many thanks. Bob

[NoodlesRS]

Mandy, Do you by an chance have details of John Richardson's marriage to Hannah Goldsborough?  Now I have discounted Ann Moreland and the fact that you have confirmed John & Hannah as the parents of Sarah Ann -and my own presumption that Matilda et al are likely siblings (I await Matilda's birth cert myself)- i have met a brick wall with pinning down a marriage for John & Hannah.   It does not help that John Richardson is one of the most popular Yorkshire names but if you can throw light on the marriage it will be a big help.   Many thanks & happy new year.  Bob

[mandyjf]

I looked at all the possible Hannahs on BMD, thinking if Sarah was the oldest child, then John and Hannah probably married up to a year before her birth. Doing this, I found a Hannah Goulden. I looked at the other names for this quarter (in 1848 off top of my head) and there was a John Richardson there. Thinking this is a likely possibility, I have ordered the certificate. It may be a coincidence, but there is no point always wondering! So I will let you know.
I imagine all those younger children- Harriett, Matilda, Charlotte, Martha, Mary, Thomas- are Sarah's siblings. You will soon know re Matilda and I have ordered Harriett's birth cert as a random sample, to see what comes of it. If they were John's mother Charlotte's children, the oldest of them would have been born when she was 49 with a big gap before this, I think.
When I get round to scanning, I will somehow let you have Sarah's BC and anything else. I have a tiny photocopy of Sarah's marriage on a sheet of A4 notes I was given, and she married Joseph Harrison on 21 August 1866 Sheffield Parish Church, she 18 spinster and he 25 bachelor, a butcher. She lived at West Bar Green, where we know the Richardsons lived, her father John a steel melter. Witnesses Frederick Richardson and a John W? Joseph's middle name was Richard and he was from Reepham in Lincolnshire.
Regarding the Haley marriages, so far I think there must have been a different father for the later children but cannot find a John Haley yet. James Haley died in 1882 and is buried with Matilda, who died 1913 (plus some other Haleys- Sheffield Indexers). That's it so far, hope it helps.
Do you know what happened to Sarah's aunts, Charlotte and Ann? There are some trees showing they emigrated but I can't find the evidence for this.
Regards
Mandy

[NoodlesRS]

Thanks Mandy, once again valuable information especially about Hannah Goulden which allowing the substitution of Ann for Hannah (which seems to happen a lot)  then that ties in perhaps to Ann Gooldy shown as the mother in the baptism records for Martha, Matilda and Thomas you mentioned in an earlier message.   I will let you have information about Matilda when known and in a moment of extravagance decided to plump for her marriage certificate as well. (Perhaps might be better to exchange emails and send each other copies so will record mine at the end).   i am pleased you sent for Harriet's BC as she is the immediate connection to my own line when she married a Peter Cunnington from Birmingham and moved there (see also about Mary her aunt later)

Regarding Matilda's marriages or rather one marriage and a cohabitation, i believe the James one will be tied up with the MC but believe it was 1871 Sheffield and 5 children. James died 1882 and I think John was James brother (both from Roscommon, Ireland) but can find no marriage. Yes there were 3 more children with John.  He died 1904 and you pinpoint Matilda 1913 I just had her as after 1911.  So you see how all the information helps piece together the Richardson clan.

You ask about Charlotte & Ann and can say they are on the back burner but I have similar information that Charlotte at least emigrated to Australia.   I have a tentative spouse of Simon O'Brien for Charlotte nothing more no dob or where from unless the O'Brien is a give away?   I have nothing for Ann but will pose the question to a lady on Ancestry who mentioned in the past about  parts of the family emigrating.   I do know Mary Richardson married a Thomas Ward and moved to Birmingham and in fact Harriet (her niece) stayed with them for a while as they had a lodging house and were shopkeepers.

My email by the way is spiersrw@aol.com so if you just confirm your own by email we can exchange any necessary certs when we have them and time to scan.

Happy New year by the way and will communicate soon.

Regards  Bob