1891 lookup request - Gurman

[pompeyboy]

Going with that thought..there is a death for a Noah French in Q4 1911in Berkhampstead age 65 born abt 1846

Steve

[lilirose03]

but bear in mind I have found George French age 21 living with his family on the 1861 census, and there is a birth record for George French Dec qtr 1840 S. Stoneham

[pompeyboy]

cancel that death it's not him

[groom]

Not sure about Ray's theory as we have both George French and Noah Gurman appearing in the 1851 and 1861 censuses in Botley.

Going back to the first post where you say you have George Gurman's marriage certificate and that he states his father is George Gurman a labourer, perhaps he was asked for his father's name and he said George and  the vicar just assumed it was Gurman.  He may also have given it as Gurman to cover up the fact that he was illegitimate.

It is strange that Selina and George French never married, if he was the younger children's father, as George was single, unless Noah just disappeared and although she called herself a widow she wasn't sure if Noah had died.

[lilirose03]

I'm assuming that if Noah went missing at sea and there was no body then there wouldn't have been a death certificate issued, I think someone has to be missing for a set number of years before they can be officially declared dead. And back in those days would that have been done automatically or only if the family requested it? That could explain the lack of any sign of him after 1871 and why Selina couldn't marry George French.

[groom]

I think Noah disappeared between 1871 and 1881 and that is why she is calling herself a widow in 1881. It would be interesting to know who was the father of William, born 1875 as that might narrow down when Noah went missing.

William appears to have been registered as William GEORGE Gurman. 

[[Ray]]

Hi

(Sorry, had to disappear after my post) 

The thing is that it is just an idea.
There are Gurman/German in the prison/court records about that time.

The other question that I could not get out of my mind is
"Why is she living =on her own= with a(nother) man"
She either knows "he" is not coming back or "he" IS back ?

If "He" has been elsewhere after crime(s) elsewhere then the neighbours may not have known he was a criminal, just working away at times.
The census may be the only time he thought he needed to call himself a different name.

Ramble, ramble

Ray

[lilirose03]

Interesting idea Ray, but how would you explain Noah? To my mind it doesn't quite fit with the facts we have.

Selina would be fairly sure Noah's not coming back if he's been declared missing presumed dead while at sea. The other thought I had was maybe he met another woman overseas and wrote to Selina telling her wouldn't be coming back? Made a new life for himself abroad? Guess that would depend on the type of boat/ship he was on though, he may not have been travelling that far...

I like your thinking about George just saying 'George' as his fathers name at the wedding Jan, and the registrar assuming it was Gurman, that makes sense to me. And William George is a good find too, I think it's looking very likely the boys are all George French's children and the two girls were Noahs before he disappeared. And George jnr on freebmd is listed as George Richard Gurman - and on the census guess what George French's dad's name is? yep, Richard...

The other thing that's intriguing me about Noah is why I can't find a birth record for him. His christening is on IGI, but I've tried every variation of Gurman I can think of on freebmd to no avail. I've tried just entering Noah with no surname to see if I could get him that way, but still nothing. I even went through several years worth of all the South Stoneham birth records to see if anything leaped out as me as possibly being him, and nothing...

[z]

Hi

Thought this worth a mention although apologies if you have it already but there a couple of articles featuring a Selina Gurman in the Hampshire Advertiser on the British Newspaper Archive website not sure whether she is yours but maybe worth a look?

Regards

Z