commercial traveller selling straw hats - is this my gypsy ancestor?

[Buttonphobic]

I think i may have gypsy ancestors. There has been talk of a Romani gypseyof a few generations ago. It would make sense as our family has unexplained dark skin. The only ancestor I can see that may have been a gypsy is William Maxted b 1821in Ramsgate Kent. His occupation  is described as commercial traveller straw hat trade in the 1871 census when he was living with his gamily at Five Bells Rd St Paul Deptford in London. Any views on this would be most welcome

[Buttonphobic]

I forgot to mention Williams middle names were John Cooper and im wondering if the cooper relates to an ancestors surname. Am i right that many gypsies were coopers?

[keyboard86]

Hi the 1851 Census does not suggest gypsy stock?

William J C Maxted 29 occ Linen Draper employing 4 Assistants b Thanet, Kent
Emma 29 Wife b Wingham, Kent
Plus 4 Assistants and 2 Servants
Residing at 329, High Street, Chatham, Kent
Census Ref HO107/1610/395/10

In 1841 his parents appear to be James aged 55 and Elizabeth aged 56, James is a Cow Keeper and William is a Butcher
Census Ref HO107/469/ 6/7/ 6
Keyboard86

[Buttonphobic]

Thanks for that Keyboard. The only other posibilities are Matthew Doyle born in Ireland in 1831 but his occupation was a stonemason so not sire it would be him. Theres also a German Casper Lemmer im going to do a seperate post about him. thanks again

[Romany Knaves]

Hi'
Cooper was and adopted Gypsy surname as for having dark skin that does not mean that you have a Gypsy ancestor and chances are that if they were native Irish they would not of been Romany but Travellers,when the Irish travellers "Tinklers" first went to Scotland they were sometimes mistaken for Romany because of their dark skin they also talked in the Cant language which was not understood by the Scotish Gypsies,there were many Hawkers,Journeymen and Travellers in the 1800's and a lot were not a Gypsy! but then your ancestor could of been a Gypsy! but gave up the road,you need to look at more surnames for a ross  reference. good luck hope you find what you seek.

[Buttonphobic]

Thanks for all the info so far. As you can see I've got another thread under way under 19th century German Gypsy. Thats in relation to my fathers grandfathers side. This thread relates to my fathers granmothers side.

Her surname was Ellis. Her father was Percy George Ellis born 1882 Hailsham, Sussex. He married Daisy Gorringe in Fulham 29/6/1902.

Percy's father was Henry Alfred Ellis born 1858 Rye Sussex married Kate Maxted 1882 Peckham Surrey.

Henry's father was Henry A Ellis aswell. he was born in Burwash around 1824. He married Sarah Hilder also of Burwash. and later Louisa Ollive of Salehurst Sussex.

I've obtained records from further back. I think it was all on the Church of the latter day saints site. 

I see that Ellis was a gypsy name but Percy and the Henrys seemed to have quite stable jobs ie Drapers.  I know nothing about the occupations of the Ellis' that preceeded the Henrys.  Edward D Ellis was the older Henrys father and he was born in Hawkhurst in kent  in 1789 and died in Waldren Sussex.  He had married Martha Burgess of sandhurst Kent. 

[Steve G]

I see that Ellis was a gypsy name

 Hmm. And so do I, now that I've checked it out in The Book Of Bob. Interesting .....

 See; I knew an Ellis girl. This was back in my earlier to mid teens. Went to school with her. In Hampshire. Few miles over the Sussex border then.

 And this girl had a look about her. 'Weird', back then. So many people felt her 'differentness' that she became known as " The Lurgy " (FFS!  Kids) She had these eyes. Sort of smoky gray, as I remember? And something about her general skin tone would, these days, suggest 'Middle Eastern' blood, to me.

 Iraq comes to mind, frankly. Iraq. Previously known as Persia. And, did not a major contingent of  original Romani's come down through Persia ....?

 Yeah. I know. Conjecture and blind conjecture at that. But, I'm not trying to hammer square pegs here. Not out to make ye day. I'm just suggesting that I've personally come across something. You've evoked it. Things bear closer scrutiny.

 And, incidentally; Looking back? I genuinely reckon ol' " Lurgy " there was fast developing into what would have blossomed into an absolutely Stunning young woman! I'll bet a fair few of the more forward lads had occasion to swallow their tongues when they realised who they were trying to chat up in some night club 
 

[nanny jan]

[
 Iraq comes to mind, frankly. Iraq. Previously known as Persia. And, did not a major contingent of  original Romani's come down through Persia ....?

I think it was Iran, not Iraq, that was previously known as Persia.


Nanny Jan

[Steve G]

  Damn, but you're sharper than a Good knife, Nanny Jan!

Taking it then ye'll have seen the world famous 'Green Eyed Afghan Girl ' shot? What's ye take on this ' Middle Eastern, Gray Eyed Girl '  thing?

 Genuinely interested