Giving the Green's another go.

[andy_smed]

Hi all

Just having another pot at finding my Great Grandmother, Sarah Green.
Sarah I believe was born about 1853 in Whitechapel, London. I have tried to find her previously but still am not convinced I have the correct person. Sarah married my Great Grandfather Joseph Smith on the 27 April 1874, according to the marriage cert her occupation was a Box Maker, her father was a William Green, Earthenware Dealer.  I have found Sarah and Joseph in the 1881, 1891 and 1901 census where she states in all that she was born in Whitechapel and her ages point to 1853.

I have kindly had some information from rootschat before but am still not entirely sure. I had previous information that seemed to suggest that Sarah's mother was Jane in 1871 census and another suggestion that she was staying with a family called Turpin in 1871. The 1871 census suggesting that her mother was Jane seemed to match up as the fathers name was William and he was a China Dealer, and Sarah was described as a Box Maker.

All seemed fine until I searched FreeBMD for Sarah Green born 1852-1854 in Whitechapel and found only one so I odered the cert. When it came I had Sarah Green born 3rd Sept 1852 fathers name William Green occupation Hawker but mother Sarah Green Formerly Turpin so I seem to have found the wrong Sarah Green from the 1871 census.

Any help or advice would be much appeciated
Thanks
Andy

[Sandymc47]

Hi Andy,

I think you are being a little dismissive of information you have got and
not trying to be a detective to piece it together.

You have the Father of Sarahs name and his occupation.  That is a good
thing to have.  Dont forget in those days most people could not read or
write and the scribe just put on the census what they told him so you
have to be a little flexible with it. Especially years, names and ages.

A Hawker and a dealer of Earthenware are more than likely the same job.
Hawkers sold their wares by going from door to door or standing in the
street.  They sold pots and plates as people in the Markets do nowadays.

I have not found the Mother Jane that you mentioned but there is a Ann.
It would not be unusual for a Sarah Ann to use her middle name when they
now had a daughter called Sarah plus it could have been written down wrongly
or it was her nickname?

In the 1961 census there is the following
William Green aged 40  born about 1821 Hawker China Wares, born Bethnal Green
Ann Green               33                     1828 Tailoress                                 "          "
Sarah                        9                      1852                                            Shoreditch
John                           8                      1853                                            Whitechapel.

All these places are in the East End and are classed as being in the Tower Hamlets
registration district. They are all within walking distance of each other.
Plus you could be born in one area and christened in a Church of your
preference in another area.

I think the birth certificate you applied for is a good guess at your Sarah
Sarah Green born 3rd September 1852 christened at St Matthias Bethnal Green
on 26th September 1852.  Parents are William and Sarah living at 5 Devonshire Place.
Williams occupation is a Hawker.

You dont mention how old Sarah is on her wedding certificate? Was she of age?
Does it state what parish they are living in?



regards Sandymc

[Sharon01]

Hi,

Another important peice of information is that the witnesses at Sarah's marriage to Joseph were John & Margaret Green.

Sharon

[jennifer c]

Possible witnesses
St James the Great Bethnal Green 2/2/1874

John Green  Hawker Bethnal Green father William  -Hawker
Margaret Russon father Joseph deceased

Witnesses Sarah Welch & Emma Edwards (prof. witness)


Jennifer

[andy_smed]

Hi Again

Thanks for the advice regarding this, I wouldnt say I was being dismissive of the information I have received, on the contrary, without the help of all the rootschaters out there my research wouldnt be half as accurate I am sure. As I have mentioned before my problem is not with the information from previous posts but it is with trying to match it up to my family.

A previous poster sent me the following information
1871 census
Rg10/404  folio  43  page 21
129 Whitecross Sr. St Lukes

William Green  age 43   China Dealer   b  St. Lukes
Jane  wife  age 30     b  Spitalfields
John son  age 20      China Dealer   b  Spitalfields
Sarah  dau   age 19    Box maker    b  Whitechapel
Oscar  son  age  13          b   Spitalfields
Henry  son  age 7         b  ditto
Mary Loyd  age 20    Servant   b   St Lukes
James  Rice   age 15   Servant   b   ditto
Thomas Russon  age 19    b   ditto

This seems to tie in with my family more closly than the family that SandyMC has found. William Green, China Dealer & Sarah Born around 1852 in Whitechapel and what confirmed it for me was that she is a Box Maker here and on her marriage certificate. I dont have the family before this or after this.

I will dig out the marriage cert later to see if there is anything else that may help.

Thanks again
Andy

[MargP]

Hi Andy

Looking at the 1871 census I would say that Jane is his second wife and probably Henry is there first child together

Margp

[andy_smed]

Hi MargP

Sorry, forgot to mention that there was some confusion about Jane's age, I have seen the original transcript and would say its difficult to see if Jane is 30 or 38 during the 1871 census. So you may be correct that she is the second wife if she is only 30.

I love researching my family tree but sometimes it is infuriating!!

Andy

[katherinem]

My thoughts too MargP 

Looking for an Oscar in 1861 with a different surname and mother Jane might help.  Will have a look later on this afternoon.

Kath

[andy_smed]

Hi Again

Ok, I have just dug out the marriage certificate for Joseph and Sarah and at the time of their marriage Sarah was living at 129 Whitecross Street, same address as the 1871 census I posted previously. I have to say that until this moment I had not realised that before. So that confirms that that is the family so where does that leave me again?

lol

Andy