Charles SMYTH, Artist and Picture Dealer

[johnupatree]

Thanks again for the interesting information, certainly giving me some possible leads, all looking very interesting and dare I say promising!

As I have mentioned before, there is a family connection to the DILLON family, so this new information is very exciting, especially the Exhibition and Photograph Gallery bit.  Althought the link http://www.dia.ie/architects/view/997#tab_works  does not take me to anything with DILLON.

Will take a look at the findmypast PPV website when I get home, boss frowns on me doing genealogical research in work, cant think why 

I appreciate very much the efforts you have all made, hugely impresssed with not only the knowledge but the speed and friendliness shown

[johnupatree]

Had a good look at the PPV site and also through Ancestry, interesting but I think this may be a blind lead.  Charles F (Ferdinand) b 1811 was married in London and appears on the 1861 census with his wife and children. No mention of a Frederick and as he was born in 1859 I cant imagine him at the age of two, not being with his parents, although stranger things have happened.

I will now put this line of enquiry on the back burner and wait for my man at the NLI to return from his holidays and send me the documents I have requested. The frustrations of genealogy!

Thanks again

[shanew147]

.....
Father Charles SMYTH, two known occupations. 1.Artist 2. Picture Dealer
...

quick questions about Charles - you mentioned two occupations  for him - are these from two separate sources and dates ?

I was thinking a search of directories closer to these dates might be worth a try - presumably one of these relates to details  given on Frederick's marriage record ?



Shane

[johnupatree]

Hi Shane,

Yes, the occupations are from two seperate sources, they are both from his marriage certificates.
Frederick married twice. 1st in 1882, Charles described as Artist. Following his wifes death in childbirth he remarried in 1899, this time Charles was described as Picture Dealer. Both marriages took place in Liverpool.

 I am presuming Charles was alive at this latter point as on other wedding certificates I have if a father was deceased it stated such, although I know that this may not always be the case.

Cheers

John

[johnupatree]

UPDATE

At long last, due to several problems, I have received the pedigree of the SMYTH family of Ballybay from NLI.

I now know the name of Solomon SMYTH snrs father; it is Laurence.

Laurence SMYTH of Derryhalla and Drumroosk, Ballybay, Co Monaghan. spouse was Brigid AGNEW

No dates on the pedigree record.  I do though have dates for the death of his son Solomon and his wife Margaret. They are respectively 20th January 1850 and 24th January 1883. Perhaps a burial record or headstone inscription may give more information? (if either exist of course!)

I am now looking for more of Laurence and Brigids children, the hope being that one of them is my elusive Charles

Cheers

[shanew147]

.....
At long last, due to several problems, I have received the pedigree of the SMYTH family of Ballybay from NLI.
....
Laurence SMYTH of Derryhalla and Drumroosk, Ballybay, Co Monaghan. spouse was Brigid AGNEW
...
I am now looking for more of Laurence and Brigids children, the hope being that one of them is my elusive Charles
....

To search for children of Laurence and Brigid you would have to follow up in parish records, if these are available for the area. No sign that I see of a Laurence Smyth/Smith in the area at the time of Griffiths...

There are two townlands in Co. Monaghan named Derryhallagh - one is in the same civil parish as Drumroosk i.e. Tullycorbet - so presume that's the townland being referred to.

The Church of Ireland and RC parishes for the area are both named Tullycorbet. Records for the RC parish only go back to the 1860s so will probably not be of much help. CofI records for this parish go back to the mid 1790s. These appear to be available in PRONI on film MIC1/153. There's no mention of records for the parish on the list of records held by the RCB Library, or National Archives..


Shane

[johnupatree]

Hi Shane,

Expecting to find records this far back was always going to be a long shot I know.  Looks like I may have hit the wall, as from the records I have, the family where Roman Catholic. Certainly Laurence's son Solomon and grandson Solomon Peter were anyway. Ho hum. 

Not quite sure where to go from here, burial records, if available? maybe they would indicate next of kin?

Just wish I knew who my elusive Charles had married, would be a great help, ah well, such is life!

You have been a great help in my search, thank you

John

[shanew147]

If your Smyths were RC then you may have reached the end of the road with regard to records on individuals, rather than a brick wall!

I'm not sure Church Burial records will help - a) because these are usually very basic (e.g. just name & date), and b) because RC parishes didn't often keep records of death/burials in their registers - e.g. none are listed for Tullycorbet parish.

Some cemeteries have good details on names and dates (e.g. Glasnevin, Mount Jerome etc), but not necessarily relationships, but these can sometimes be established by confirming with other records. There's always the possibility of some details on a headstone inscription or death notice... if you can locate these..


Shane

[johnupatree]

Thanks Shane, yes it is the end of a road rather than a brick wall, looks like I will have to find another road to travel down 

Your help, advice and suggestions over the past months have been greatly appreciated.

Best wishes

John