GG Grandfather was an army deserter

[barbaras daughter]

Hi all, I've recently discovered that my GG Grandfather deserted the army in South Africa in November 1885.  His name was Henry HERBERT and his service number was 17534.  He was a Sapper in the 7th Coy. R.E.  I got his military records from Ancestry.com.  There is a court martial sheet amongst the papers but it doesn't have a date on it or anything that I can read (which is only about 5 words & "South Africa" being 2 of those words), so it doesn't give me anything to go on.

I'd like to know if he ever got caught for deserting, how & when he left South Africa and where he went to.  Did he go back to England or come to Australia?

Any help will be greatfully received.

Thank you,
Michelle

[t mo]

hi michelle
we,ll need more info on him such as place and year of birth at lest to have any chance of finding him only there are 262 henry herberts in the 1891 census alone .
you say you got the army record from ancestry was it a ww1 service record ? .
the more you give us the better chance of being able to help .
best wishes
trevor

[GrahamSimons]

You might find this guide useful:

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/research-guides/army-courts-17th-20th.htm

[barbaras daughter]

Hi Trevor,

Thanks for your reply.  Henry HERBERT was born 1st April, 1865 at Farnham, Surrey, England.  (Not sure if you need the following info or not, but I'll let you know just in case).  Henry & 2 of his siblings were born to an unwed mother & their births were registered with her surname of ROGERS.  By 1871 their mother had married Charles WARD and the 3 children were shown on the census as step-children of Charles WARD using the surname HERBERT, so I'm assuming their biological father's surname was HERBERT.

Yes, Henry's service records were found on Ancestry under WW1.

The first I know of Henry being in Australia is when he married in Melbourne in 1889 (therefore he won't be on the UK 1891 census).  His marriage certificate shows his occupation as a cook.

His service record shows his occupation at the time of enlistment as a Rigger and he was appointed to the Royal Engineers, consequently he called himself an engineer at various times in Australia.

Thank you Trevor,
Michelle

[t mo]

does the service record look as if it was continuous service time apart from a gap when he deserted or does it look as if he REenlisted for ww1 only i,m have a job to understand the circumstances of it all , also if you have access to ancestry have you found a passenger list in the incoming passengers to england from aus before ww1 ,
i,ve just looked in find my past outgoing passenger lists for a henry herbert or harry herbert but nothing shows for aus after 1918 till 1960 in fact there,s only a handful of henry herberts from 1900 till 1960 any way i suppose he could have been repatriated without it showing up though as so many others would have been .
have you looked for entry records for aus passengers .
trevor

[lyn22]

There is a tree on A that says Harry Herbert arrived in 1884 on the Antiope . Married Agnes Louisa Broadby . Henry John Herbert parents Henry A Herbert and Frances Rogers and has Frances marrying a second time to Charles Richard Ward . Three children for each marriage for Frances . A lot of sources on the tree but no Army record  Take Care Lynette

[barbaras daughter]

Hi Trevor,

There is no gap in his service record from when he enlisted in 1882 to when he deserted in 1885 & nothing appears after the Regimental Court of Enquiry (regarding his desertion)  which was held on 11.12.1885.

Sadly I don't have access to Ancestry (I got Henry's service records when Ancestry had free access for Anzac day this year), therefore am unable to check for passenger lists into England or Australia.  I don't think Henry would have been repatriated as I believe he deserted & just 'shot through'under his own steam

I have looked for Henry coming to Australia but the records don't give enough information to be able to figure out if any of them are my Henry.

Trevor, you mentioned that you had looked at Find My Past to see if you could find Henry on any passenger lists & that "nothing shows for aus after 1918 till 1960 in fact there,s only a handful of henry herberts from 1900 till 1960".  I'm interested in trying to find out where he went from when he deserted in South Africa in November 1885 to when he married in Melbourne Australia December 1889.  Sadly Henry died in 1903 so there is no point trying to find any info after that date.

I hope I haven't confused you any further with the above info. & thank you for your help.

Michelle

[barbaras daughter]

Hi Lynette,

Thank you for your reply.  The tree on Ancestry with all the info you mentioned is info I supplied to another lady & at that time I didn't know about Henry being in the army 1882-1885, therefore the shipping arrival on the Antiope in 1884 must be another Henry HERBERT.  Thank you for your help though.

Michelle

[t mo]

hi michelle
if henry died in 1903 he couldn,t have been in the army in ww1 , it seems to me you,ve got muddled up with 2 different fellas here .
regards
trevor