Born 'At Sea'

[groom]

He isn't very helpful is he - says he has been married 6 years ie about 1905

There are 2 possible marriages with a Clara involved


OSBORN, Ernest Alfred
1905 Dec quarter
Lambeth
1D 811

on the same page Clara Parry

OSBORNE, Earnest Emmins
1905 Sept quarter
Greenwich
1D   1830

On the same page Clara Bird

This is interesting though, I wonder if  Earnest Emmins Osborne is the Ernest Hemmings Andrews whose birth I found in 1882?

[rosijayne]

Hi groom and carol,

sorry to take so long, have been reading all of this and trying to work it though.  I have a marriage entry here for Ernest and Clara Bird, just looking again, and see that Ernest's father on that one is Arthur, and also, as you say, middle name of Emmins, which to me looks very likely to be the Ernest Hemmings Andrews that you kindly found for me.

Some of this is beginning to make sense, apart from the 'at sea' birth, I may have to order birth certificate for Ernest Hemmings Andrews to be completely sure, as I am confused now as to whom his natural parents were.

I wonder if he was Fanny's child, brought up by Arthur, maybe his natural father was a sailor?

Thank you so much for all this helpful info

rosiejayne

[groom]

I'm not sure that he is Fanny's child, more likely to be a brother as there are 2 children listed as in laws on the 1891, Ernest and Edith. If they are Fanny's children she would only have been 14 when Edith was born. Also in the 1891 census, Arthur and Fanny have a year old daughter called Edith, Fanny isn't likely to have called two children the same name, but is more likely to have named her daughter after her sister.

It could well be that Ernest just put at sea on the census as a joke, or perhaps he didn't know where he was born. I think the clue here might be Edith born 1878. If we can find her with her family in 1881, that will show Ernest's parents.

Jan

[groom]

This is a possible

1881     RG11; Piece: 950; Folio: 26; Page: 8

Grocer's shop  Smeeth Kent.

He seems to have put their gender in front of their names. 

William Andrews   37       Lab                 Smeeth
Esther Andrews   36                              Ruckinge, Kent
F. Catharine Andrews   14                      Willesbro
M. Charles Andrews   13                              Smeeth     
F. Rosanna Andrews   9                        Smeeth
M. H. Andrews   7                                        Smeeth
F. Jane Andrews   6                                Smeeth
M. Frank Andrews   3                                Smeeth
T. Edith Andrews   2                                Smeeth
F. Mabel Andrews   7mths                         Smeeth

[groom]

It looks as if William died, as Esther is a widow in 1891. However it either isn't the right family or she included Ernest on her census return even though he wasn't there on the night.

RG12; Piece: 701; Folio: 100; Page: 9


Esther Andrews   46  widow Grocer     Ruckinge, Kent
Charles Andrews   22                             Smeeth
Rosanna Andrews   19                             Smeeth
Frank Andrews   13                                     Smeeth
Mabel Andrews   10                             Smeeth
Ernest Andrews   8                               Smeeth


Not sure now, as Ernest Andrews is still with her in 1901  RG13; Piece: 785; Folio: 93; Page: 13  However I cant find an Ernest Osborne that fits in 1901. If you are sure that you have the right marriage certificate for Ernest and Clara, as he gives his name as Ernest Emmins, it might be worth getting the birth certificate for Ernest Hemmins Andrews and see who that names as the parents.

[rosijayne]

Hi groom

I think this is the right family, thank you.  I knew the Andrews family came from Smeeth, and my direct ancestor would be Catherine on the 1881 census, which all ties in with what I know.

I think you are right when you say Esther put Ernext down on the census, although he wasn't living with the family at the time.

Maybe, as you say, Ernest did not actually know where he was born, and put down the first thing he could think of!

I think the only way forward for me is to get the birth certificate for Ernest Hemmins Andrews which will hopefull reveal all.

Your help in all of this has been fantastic, I have learnt a lot about this family today.

rosiejayne

[groom]

Please let us know how you get on when you get the certificate.

Glad to have been of help.

Jan

[rosijayne]

Thanks Jan, I will.

rosiejayne

[carol8353]

The 1905 marriage is sounding very likely.

14th August 1905 at St Luke's Deptford.

Ernest Emmins Osborne 23 bachelor,fireman,23 Crook Road father Arthur Osborne Salesman

Clara Bird 23 spinster 19 Crook Road,father James George Bird decd Engineer.

Witnesses William Stapleton and Florence Ada Dodson