Ancestors of Samuel Kerr, Carrickfergus

[valeriekerr11]

"This is a bit of a long shot, but I have John Millar who married Sarah Devlin in Joymount Presbyterian church on 01 Nov 1845. They had two children Isabella b 6 Dec 1863 and Patrick b 1861. Could your Margaret Ann and my John be related?"

Both of these families are in my tree, but the Millars are not related to each other. Margaret Ann is my Great Great Grandmother.
Isabella Millar had a daughter Wilhelmina. I'm distantly related to her husband Samuel Brennan.

[Trevbet]

Thank you aghadowey for passing on information regarding John Millar.

[Jon_ni]

"This is a bit of a long shot, but I have John Millar who married Sarah Devlin in Joymount Presbyterian church on 01 Nov 1845.

Aghadowey you may be able to clarify from Congregational Histories but Joymount Bank Reformed Presbyterian was located in the green area right of Carrickfergus Library & in front of Joymount Presbyterian (formed 1852, built 1856), with both marked on the Griffiths map available from the drop down selection. https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/irl/ANT/Carrickfergus/JoymountPresbyterian

Did the congregations merge officially or did Joymount Bank Unitarian peter out & close??

Joymount Bank Remonstrant Presbyterian Meeting House aka Joymount Bank Unitarian [Non-Subscribing] Presbyterian Church was founded 1836.
eg your https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1845/09294/5364661.pdf by James Nixon Porter.
Belfast Street Directories (Provincial section) on PRONI and Findmypast show it with Rev Thos Smith, incumbent 1895 then vacant 1896-1900 but with ministers again 1904 under Carrickfergus & Places of Worship. Not listed 1923 and becomes unlabelled on OS 6” maps then demolished.

Joymount Presbyterian Church on the other hand still exists being built & opened 1856, with Rev. James Warwick incumbent the 1st marriage in the new building 3 Oct 1856. Apparently based on a congregation founded 1852 and under his care with first marriage 24 Dec 1853 last marriage 20 Sep 1856 at ‘North gate Street Presby Church’ all performed by him. http://www.joymount.org/joymount_history.html

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1853/09452/5424707.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1856/09512/5447645.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1856/09512/5447646.pdf

The North Gate was at the northern end of North Street, and there is a Presbyterian Church marked just west of it on the 1860 based map within the Irish Historic Towns Atlas for Carrickfergus, presume that was it.
https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/assets.ria.ie/ihta/ihta-digital/anglo-norman-towns/carrickfergus/IHTA_02_Carrickfergus_Text.pdf also section 11 churches.

[aghadowey]

Went downstairs for the book and came back upstairs with a mug of coffee 

From A History of Congregations in the Presbyterian Church in Ireland 1610-1982
The Presbytery appointed Mr. James Warwick (lic. Carrickfergus 1848) to initiate a new congregation in 1851. He was ordained 2 Mar.1852 "and on a site provided by Lord Donegall, the foundation stone of a new church was laid on 14 June 1855 and the building opened for worship on 21 Sept.1856."
Nothing is mentioned about merging with another church.
Under 1st Carrickfergus it says "... in 1834 and the new church was built at that time."

[Jon_ni]

Thanks Aghadowey

PRONI do not list Joymount Bank Remonstrant Presbyterian at all under Carrickfergus or any N.S.P., just the subscribing Joymount with Baptisms 1852-1907; marriages 1853-1908; various minutes 1852 onwards; building committee minutes 1853-56.

Just searched the eCat for 'Joymount' and apart from the above records only identifiable result is a 1854 lease for land for the new church.

D652/1475. Date: 27 November 1854.
Description: Counterpart Lease for 81 years. Rent £1. 0. 0. Marquis of Donegal to Samuel Davys Stuart, George Forsyth Esquires & Rev. James Warwick Carrickfergus, Co. Antrim. Land in the North side of Joymount Bank called the Deerpark, containing in breadth in fontal Joymount Bank 23'6" and in depth to Parkwall 108'9" and extending in breadth at said Parkwall 90' and northwards 391' in breadth in the rere, 98' in Town and Liberties of Carrickfergus also Map.

The eCat entry for MIC1P/332/1 also mentions North Gate:
1852-1907: Baptism register of Joymount Presbyterian Church or 2nd Carrickfergus, Carrickfergus. 1853-8: Marriage register of Joymount Presbyterian Church or 2nd Carrickfergus, Carrickfergus (sometimes referred to as North Gate Street). etc

Joymount Bank Remonstrant/Unitarian must have closed c.1922, is listed in 1912 Province of Ulster Directory as 'Unitarian Church, Joymount Bank, Rev. John M'Cleery. 1920 listed but no minister's name. 1923 Unlisted.

1912: https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record/browse?id=ire%2fbelfastdirectories%2fd200--068%2f0831
1920: https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record/browse?id=ire%2fbelfastdirectories%2fd200--004%2f0865
1923: https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record/browse?id=ire%2fbelfastdirectories%2fd200--005%2f0777

That is supported by the PRONI Valuation Revision Books is scored out with a 1923 date VAL/12/B/7/7C (1916-29)
https://apps.proni.gov.uk/DCAL_PRONI_Val12b/Large%20JPeg/IRELBEL1D_014R/IRELBEL1D_VAL-12B-7-7C/IRELBEL1D_VAL-12B-7-7C_M_00110.jpg
https://apps.proni.gov.uk/DCAL_PRONI_Val12b/Large%20JPeg/IRELBEL1D_014R/IRELBEL1D_VAL-12B-7-7C/IRELBEL1D_VAL-12B-7-7C_M_00227.jpg
and the previous book VAL/12/B/7/7B (1908-15) the Earl of Shaftsbury was sub-leasing part of it for Torrens Sons & Bristor Imports from 1909/10.
https://apps.proni.gov.uk/DCAL_PRONI_Val12b/Large%20JPeg/IRELBEL1D_014R/IRELBEL1D_VAL-12B-7-7B/IRELBEL1D_VAL-12B-7-7B_M_00112.jpg

John

[ChicagoJax]

Hi, I'm new to this site and this is my first post.  I believe I'm the great-grandson of Jane Wisnom who had 3 sons: Hugh, John, and William.  I was told them my grandfather's name was John Winston Ridges, but after search FamilySearch.org and reading some of these posts, I'm thinking his name may have been: John Wisnom Ridges.  I'm appreciate any feedback.  Also I have a photo of a Hugh Ridges could be his brother.

[KiwiRose]

Hello ChicagoJax,

Welcome to Rootschat.

I believe that you are correct in the names of Jane Wisnom’s 3 sons.

It is common amongst Irish families to include the mother’s surname as a middle name for at least one of the children so your grandfather may well have been called John Wisnom Ridges. They also commonly name their sons after the father and both grandfathers. 

Hugh Ridges and Jane Wisnom married on 3 April 1879 in Glenarm, Antrim. The marriage was registered in Larne. 
The image of the marriage record has Hugh as a farmer as was his father, John Ridges. You can view the marriage image at the free site irishgenealogy.ie

After the birth of their first son William, they emigrated to Illinois, USA.

My connection with this family is through Sarah Jane the wife of their Illinois born son, also a Hugh. Sarah Jane and Hugh married in San Mateo, California in 1905. They brought their family up in the San Mateo area.

I hope the above information helps you with your research.

Regards,

KiwiRose.

[Kiltaglassan]

 Hugh Ridges and Jane Wisnom married on 3 April 1879 in Glenarm, Antrim. The marriage was registered in Larne. 
The image of the marriage record has Hugh as a farmer as was his father, John Ridges. You can view the marriage image at the free site irishgenealogy.ie

After the birth of their first son William, they emigrated to Illinois, USA.

Linking the marriage and birth-

At Glenarm Presbyterian Church (3 April 1879).
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1879/11065/8048279.pdf

Hugh living at North West Ballycarry, Jane living at Carnbrock. Note one witness was a John Wisnom.

https://www.townlands.ie/antrim/belfast-lower/templecorran/templecorran/ballycarry-north-west/
https://www.townlands.ie/antrim/belfast-lower/templecorran/templecorran/carnbrock/

Son William Wisnom Ridges born 15 October 1879.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1879/02900/2062480.pdf